KGS Wishlist / Game Handling

Sub-page of KGSWishlist

2. Game Handling


Should be game related wishes on this page: game itself, SE, time systems, game start, game end.

Rules: on an extra page for game settings

Rating: extra page for all around rating, ranking, Kyu and Dan

Chat related wishes go to the (new) page KGSWishlist / Chat

Editing: extra page KGSWishlist / Editing

Wishes related to lists (users, games, open games etc.) shall go to the (new) page KGSWishlist / Lists

If you are new to KGS:

If you just used KGS for the first time, these wishlist pages may be quite confusing to you. Your experience, however, is very valuable and you can help to improve KGS by adding it to KGS First Time User Experience.

Table of contents

Unsorted ideas and requests

Game window: clicking player's box should give the context menu for the user

  • Right-clicking on in-game user's box to show his nick-list context menu: enrolls foreign user's profile view when reviewing past games, fast decision about foreign user's list status possible, especially useful when opponent leaves hastily, no more painful re-typing of error prone nicknames necessary, ease of chatting someone up again, telling whether he escaped or disconnected, spectators have contestants' profiles readily available.

Game: hear byo-yomi countdown instead of beeps

  • I would like to hear byo-yomi countdown instead of beeps. +

Automatch: show time settings just before the game starts

  • I would really appreciate it if time settings would be shown just before the game starts (in case of automatch). It is rather annoying having to play a 10 second blitz without announcement of time settings before the game started.

Game: "add byoyomi period" instead of a fixed number of minutes

  • Chris Hayashida: I'd also like to be able to add time with "add byoyomi period" instead of adding a fixed number of minutes and giving all of his periods back.

Allow CGoban to estimate the time according to the local time on my computer (TimeSeal?)

  • I often have trouble with my ISP. When I play game with time, often it will not accept my move immediately and I lose on time. It will be better to allow CGoban to estimate the time according to the local time on my computer, not according to internet. Thus, even if I get slowed or disconnected, CGoban will "remember" when exactly I played, and will later transmit to the server and adjust the "lost" time. {KOCMOC on KGS} -- using the local time instead of the server time would makes things more fair IMHO +?
    • Jade: Couldn't this be abused?
    • xela: Some of the chess servers have been doing this for a long time. They call it "timestamping". I don't know the technical details, but it seems to work OK. I guess abusing the system would mean hacking the client software, which wouldn't be worth the effort for most people.

Game: stop the clock while an undo window is up; add a few seconds

  • Erik: Please stop the clock while an undo window is up. And/or add a few seconds. As it stands it's possible to force a win by forcing your opponent to use his last few seconds to get rid of the undo window.

Canadian byo-yomi: Average time per move left

  • Would it be possible to display the average time per move you have left? So if you have 1:35 minutes left and 17 moves, you'd see "6 seconds per move" (in addition to the information that is already presented)? Then you'd have a better understanding of how pressed for time you are. I always find myself trying to calculate this in my head during games.

[21] General Game Stuff

Automatch: for rengo games?

  • masek: Auto Match improvements: Is it possible to add auto match feature for rengo games ?

Rengo : name of person to play next move (? still valid ?)

  • subtlekyu:
    1. when viewing a rengo game that is being played - as changing the position in the game : it would be nice if the name of the one to have been about to play the next move changed as well - the "black / white" information does change, but the nick is rendered according to who is about to play the current move as played realtime - regardless of what the user can actually see
    2. when viewing an offline rengo game, it would be nice if the nicks too were displayed at the top as they are when watching a rengo game that is being played
    3. the whole of this seems to be correctly implemented when reviewing a rengo game

Game: "rematch" button to challenge the same opponent again

  • bellyflip: On TOM Go or Cyberoro there is a "rematch" option where you can click to challenge the same opponent again after a match ends. I think this will be useful for KGS because usually players leave immediately after a match, so even if you want to challenge the same opponent you might have to PM, set up a game, and wait for them to come and play with you again. If there's a 'rematch" option then you can challenge the opponent right away and the opponent will be able to accept/reject immediately.

Game: allow disabling of undo for rated games

  • ragkgs: raw beginners unfamiliar with mice need undo. the feature is unfortunately abused by some players. please allow disabling of undo for rated games. +

Observing game: disallow comments, when not at actual move

Clone game: it doesn't save the move I'm looking at

  • Peterius?: This is minor but its still annoying. If I clone a game in another room to look at a variation, it doesn't save the move I'm looking at, it just goes to the end of the game and then I have to scroll back again. Annoying. (valid: vers.3.4.14)

User info, games list: "number of moves played" for each game

  • Samurai Poo?: I believe adding "number of moves played" for each and every game of every player under players' information would be an interesting addition and highly used.--
    • ProtoDeuteric: It might be interesting, but most of the time, the number of moves have nothing to do with either the caliber or style of the player, so the statistic would be useless.

Boards with different geometrics (as e.g. hexagonal or triangular)

  • Masacroso?:I would like to be able to play in alternative boards with differents geometric forms like hexagonal or triangle cells, this maybe funny to play and interesting. This was introduced here: [ext]
    • ProtoDeuteric: This feature wold be truly awesome. I have no idea how it could be done, but I would like to see it!

Preferences, audio lessons: turn off the sound of the stone, but still hear the teacher

  • MrShintou: I would like to be able to turn off the sound of the stone but still be able to keep the audio of a teaching account. (Its not much but one should never not wish)+ (v.3.4.5)

Demo game: quiet mode, can't withdraw allowance to talk

  • Willsgames: If you are giving a demonstration game you are able to put it in quiet mode where people are only able to speak if you give them access. However currently, once you give them access you cannot withdraw it - could this be changed so that you can give access to more players while stopping people who abuse this. Alternatively, a booting function from the game could work so you could remove unhelpful people.

Demo game: delete misclick

  • Willsgames: In the demonstration games I cannot see a way to undo misclicks other than creating a new variation. In online relays of live games, the recorders often misclick and having a way to undo it would be very useful

Game, lag problem: mechanism to synchronize with local computer's clock

  • Housedore?: I would like to echo the comments PetiAU? below. We need some mechanism to synchronize with local computer's clock in order to avoid lag problems, especially during blitz games. I like to play 10(3) games and it is often a problem. All of the main chess servers as well as IGS already have this protection. KGS should too. This is especially true of late, as KGS server itself has been having some major lag problems.
    • postglock: strongly support this. Intermittent lag is a terrible problem, especially for blitz games.
    • RueLue: to get an idea how this works, please do a search for "timeseal?", which is used by chess servers. The program (some sort of driver?) itself is no longer maintained, but I think, the system is now widely used.

Game: disable right mouse button for placing a stone

  • NickGeorge: is there any way to disable right mouse as playing a stone? If not, it'd be nice. That's the source of 90% of my clicking mistakes.+
    • RueLue: Nervous fingers? :-)

Game, lesson: option: no move allowed before a minimum thinking time over

  • Davou: I think this idea would be very helpful with regard to learning. I think that there should be an option somewhere that allows the user to set a minimum thinking time. by that I mean, the client will not allow the player to make a move unless he or she has spent the set number of seconds/minutes thinking about the move. My biggest impediment towards improving comes from my not taking the time to think that I would benefit from. Im sure its an easy code too ^_^ .

Game: private notes while a game is played

Game, UI: stop chat bell or chat with button

  • tderz: The ringing in chat can be very disturbing: The following situation occured: When looking for players or watching other players games many windows can have been opened.
    Then I had to play a game, reached byoyomi (of course) and there was a problem about the time setting (5s a move in a 1hr tournament game; should have been 20 or so) and other people (tournament director & other players) ringed me by the chat function. Now, with the many windows open, I usually have a problem finding the "main?" or "rooms?" window or where was the "chat"-tab? With 5 seconds of byoyomi I would not have had enough time to return to my game window in time, see where a move had been made, think and make my own move in time. The result was that I was playing in a byoyomi too short and it was ringing all the time - which I could not stop. My suggestion: add a button in the game window, which allows for stopping all chat at once. (if it exists already I apologize for my ignorance; I did not take the time to read the other suggestions here either).
    • LithiumTwo: you can get rid of the ringing on "Set Preferences"

Observe game: chat move-# headings as hyperlinks to browse in game

Game, UI: bigger board view, full screen mode

  • ilan: Hi WMS! The one thing I would like to see on KGS is the biggest possible go board (e.g., my KGS board is smaller than the Dashn or glGo boards). It seems to me that a lot of space is taken up by the chat window and other stuff which is not essential to playing. Maybe it's already possible to get a larger board, but I don't know how to do this. +
    • RobertJasiek: Absolutely, I agree, bigger board views must be possible: a) full screen height, b) only title window above the board. When we play, we want to look at the board and not admire unessential game info windows.

Active games list: include demo and teaching games

  • iLoveSai 7/16/2004: Active Games Tab -- can we also see D & T games listed along with R and F? This would make it more convenient to find teaching game to view for beginners like me. Also, the ability to sort that list by D, T , R , F as well as already available options?+

Demo, teaching: semi-private

  • iLoveSai 7/16/2004: Have an option to limit viewing privileges to D and T games for more than 1 other person. So, it can be sorta like a semi-private game.

Observing games: tabbed view

  • ZeroKun: I guess it was deleted when the pages were made. Anyway, I hate having more than one window open for a game, and not knowing which one has a move played since I last viewed it. It would be good if there was an option for viewing games in a tabbed window, exactly like the simul window, but with a close button of course.

User info: credits for teaching games

  • ziggystar: I like the idea of the teaching ladders. I would give teaching games more often if I would get more in return. Now can't you implement a credit system for teaching games? I bet that many more people would give teaching games if they would get something in return. (Even if only the credits). And I suppose that it would distribute the teaching games a bit better. (E.G. not only people asking for a review all the time get most of them because you could see that this person has already received an astonishing amount of lessons).
    • Mef:You can just check a person's profile to see their history of teaching vs. being taught.

Game interruptions and escapes

  • When someone has a game to finish that is loaded by his opponent, he should not be allow to start a new one... Very frustrating for those that are waiting.
    • wms: As a policy I never force anybody to play in a game they don't want to. Yes, it is frustrating when somebody escapes from you - but when they don't want to play you, I'm not going to force them to, and I'm not going to ban them from the server or prevent them from playing other games just because they don't want to. The server has a system for handling escapers, so when somebody doesn't want to finish your game, please just accept that. (PS - Requests like this come up on a regular basis, so perhaps this question & answer should be left up top here, where people will see it?)
    • Nobody forced him to accept to play this game...
      • nemir Not originally, but there may be many valid (to his/her mind at least) reasons not to wish to continue the game now. I can think of a couple ranging from things like disapproving of an opponent's attitude through to not wishing to return to a game begun at a time when the strength of the players was drastically different. In any case, I must say I agree with wms' policy on this.
      • alejo Though it is true that there could be several reasons for not to wish to continue the game, I think something should be done. For example: once both players are connected to KGS a message appears: Do you want to play the pending game against ....? If any of them clicks on "no" it is set as "abandoned". Or, since most games are left nearby the yose, use the "territory estimator" (or whatever you call it in English) to guess the winner. It he Might not be the solution, but they are some possibilities...

Different sounds for moves in my game and in observed games

  • jfc: different sound for moves in my game verses moves in an observe game. Rational: Yesterday I was teaching a newbie. She was taking a long time between moves (I didn't pressure her to play fast) so I was observing another game. I want to get sounds in both games but I also want to easily distinguish "move sound" in the game we are playing verses a "move sound" in an observe game. Obviously this feature is merely a "nice to have".

Server stats: show the date and time on the server

Game, UI: click on players name to get their info (as with avatar)

  • Vinz?: Hi. You know how, in a game, we can click on a players pic to get a larger version, is it in the works that we could click on a players name to get their info, rather than going through the player list? Thanks.

Escaping: guests shouldn't be allowed to leave a game unfinished

  • Fishbulb: I would like to request that guests not be allowed to leave a game unfinished. If a guest leaves or disconnects, too bad... he/she forfeits. If a person wants to be able to resume a game, then they should register the account to ensure that ONLY they can resume it, not some imposter... it only makes sense.

Swap stones during play

  • Make it possible for the players to swap stones during play.+
    • RueLue: This is possible in a teaching game: menu Tools, Set Players

Players at the top of the observer list; names in game info field clickable

  • Put players at top of observer list and perhaps separate them with a thick line. +++++++++++
    • LithiumTwo how about not put them on the observer list at all, allow their names to be clicked on (on the big boxes above the captures) and their names would be grayed if they left the game.

Interrupted game through disconnection: immediately join the game on reconnection

  • Immediately join an open game you were playing upon reconnection when you've been disconnected.++++++++

Game, add time: add custom time; add byoyomi period(s)

  • Allow to add custom time (Ex.: add 20 min)
    • RueLue: just give 5 minutes multiple times
    • joelr Can you add a byo yomi period? (goes with above)
      • RueLue: added time is split to corresponding byoyomi periods:
        - if 5x20 seconds is set, your opponent is down to 3 seconds SD and you add 1 minute, your opponent has, 3x20 + 1x3 seconds left;
        - same case, but only 2x20 seconds is set, it becomes 2x20 seconds + 23 seconds main time.

Observing game, UI: panes for the observers list and chat box adjustable

  • When observing a game, make the panes for the observers list and chat box adjustable.

"Menu" pane optional, more space for the board

  • Make "menu" pane optional, so allow more space for the board +

Games lists: tooltip: time and the time system (DONE: open games list)

  • Add an extra column in the list of currently played and offered games, to show the available time and the time system. To avoid a clobbered game listing, perhaps show this info in a "tooltip" when the mouse hovers over the listing? Some mention of this is/was in KGS Plans. + + + +
    • I see this suggestion got implemented as a mouseover tooltip. Great feature. I would like to see this feature extended to all games. Game rule and time display is way more useful than the current mouseover information of rated/unrated/etc.

Show response time experienced by your opponent

  • Indication of response time experienced by your opponent.---

Observe games: Slider-bar navigation

  • Slider-bar navigation of moves.

Players can agree to delete their unfinished game

  • Some way for players to agree to delete their unfinished game. After an extended time has elapsed, people often have no interest in finishing a game from when they were many stones weaker.++++++

Don't restart the clock after an undo in the scoring phase.

  • Do not restart clock after an undo in the scoring phase. This can be disconcerting in cases of dispute over old "special ruling" cases. Besides, the game ended by agreement, already.+

Rooms window: "New Game" button on the "Open Games" tab

  • Hu: Would like "New Game" button on the "Open Games" tab.
    • (I think you have to be "in" a particular room to start a game. The "Open Games" tab is not a room. -Jared)
      • [Nemir}: I agree with Hu. The server could decide to open the game in the most highly populated room that the requester is a part of, or perhaps check a profile to see if the user has entered a "home" room. I am sure cleverer folk than I can think of more elegant solutions to this issue, as well.
      • Just create the game as part of no room. This would be a new feature for the server. The game will be visible only in the Open Games tab. --Mafutrct

Rooms window: optional all Global games, offered and played, together in ONE tab

  • Hu: Would like option to display all Global games, offered and played in the Open Games tab, which would be renamed "Global Games". Then I could stack the Global Games tab, and move all room window chat divider bars to the top.

Show room name in game window (and sgf)

  • blubb: When being in a game (no matter if playing, editing, kibitzing or whatever), let there be a way to find out the corresponding room from within the game. Maybe on the Game Info bit, the "Location" property (this is PC and valid in all FF) in the sgf file could be "<room> on the KGS server"

Open games list: sort by game type

  • Open Games tab needs option to sort by game type (rated, free, teaching).+

Open games tab: highlight with rank mask

  • Open Games tab needs highlight with rank mask. Ie. "highlight when a challenge by 1-10k appears".

Games lists: label the games with a unique ID (and allow sorting via ID)

  • eng60340: label the games with a unique ID (and allow sorting via ID). so that when i ask for game advice, the advisers can locate the game quickly.-
    • LithiumTwo: This would be solved much more easily with the "Invite" function discussed above.

Option to stop opponent's clock

Board, shortcuts: Double click on the board to send coordinates to the chat line

  • ZeroKun: Dunno if this was proposed, but I have a better idea for ctrl click, instead of ctrl click to paste the board coordinates, it should just be a double click, and depending on which button you use it would play a W or B next to it. I think this would make things a lot easier than just ctrl click and then having to write the color of the move.

Observe game, board, feature: guess the next move; display the count of clicks per location

  • Daan: Allow observers to guess the next move by clicking on the board, instead of naming them in the chat section. The board could then display the number of clicks per location (either numerically or through something fancy like a colour gradient though I wouldn't recommend that) allowing or course only one click per observer per move. It would require an option to turn this on/off of course.+
    • blubb: If you just don't like to type coordinates (although that's something different, I know): it is already possible to ctrl-click at a point to paste its coordinates to the chat line. To (be able to) see the guesses at the board would be nicer, though.
    • Warp: I like this idea. Currently when people guess the next move, they flood the kibitz window for that. I feel this is unnecessary and often annoying flooding. Guessing the next move by just clicking on it would be cool. I think a number of guesses in each intersection (of course except in intersections with no guesses) would be ok.

"Rematch" option after a game

  • Vlad I think it would be nifty with a "rematch" option after a game, which directly opens a new game.++++-

Observing game: when browsing moves, indicate when a new move is played

  • Anon: When a user is watching a game and not at the last node (following the new moves), indicate when there is a new move played (perhaps by highlighting the fast-forward button).

Observing games: info messages of all windows in one window

  • Anon2: If you get several information messages from games that finish as you watching them, add them all to the same message or information window.

Info window for game end: button to jump to that game

  • Anon2: When an information window for game end by scoring, resign or otherwise shows up, have a button that will jump to the game window.

Info message: show which game has ended

  • Anonymous: Make sure all such information messages show which game has ended. Currently I think at least one of them does not.
(SOLVED 3.4.14: names of the players are shown, when the game was decided by points, time or resign)

Teaching feature in normal games: review, when game still not finished

  • wms: Make the "review game" option always enabled, but if you click it during a free or ranked game, your opponent gets a "your opponent wants to review now, ok?" window, similar to the way that undo works. After reviewing, you must then return to the game to finish it.
    • blubb: The same applies to "clone game" option. Observers should always be able to create a clone.+
    • RueLue: No review while still playing a rated game.

Open rengo game: auto-send message to all interested players

  • I always wait so long to set up a rengo game! It will be much easier if I could automatically send message to all people in the rengo room. Or let them know in some other way. Now, there are so many people just "hanging" there, taking up space. {KOCMOC on KGS}

Open games list: icon for blitz games

  • pwaldron?: It would be great if, for open games, there could be a flag indicating blitz games.++

Taskbar icon blinking, when a move has been played

  • Naustin--I would like it if the game window box on the taskbar at the bottom of the screen could blink colored (like MSN) if it wasn't the top window and a move was made by the opponent. This would make it a lot easier to manage multiple windows (especially without audio) and to select the correct window when going back to the game.

Allow to delete a demo game from my games list

  • Grauniad: Allow users to delete demonstration games from their game lists. This would be particularly useful if you save a game review (as a demonstration game), and later decide you don't want it cluttering your game list.

Option to remove bots from open games lists

  • RiffRaff: An option to remove bots from open game lists. Some people don't like having to wade through the dozen or so games being offered by bots, and since those accounts are already marked as being bots it seems like it'd be fairly easy to let people filter them out.+

Clocks should be updated based on the time on client side

Mouse anti slip should not affect reviewing

  • kiseki: mouse anti slip system enabled should only apply to games as they are being played. It should not affect reviewing, as turning it on and off all the time to facilitate either playing or reviewing is annoying. This was not the case in the cgoban2.

User info, games list: sort by how many points lost or won / me as black or white.

  • KsiWave?: I'd like a sort on the games list, that way I can sort how many points I lost or won by as well as when I was black or white.

Buddy list: could show, who is online

  • * cormorant?: It would also be nice if the buddy list could show me if my friends are online or not instead of having to search for them often.

Game chat, feature, "active content": suggested sequence of moves, click it to add it to your game tree

Better visual indication when the opponent passes

  • edgy?: Could there be some more dramatic visual indication when the opponent passes? I have some difficulty noticing it--since I'm concentrated on looking for where the next stone is going to show up--and only realize it when I notice my clock is flashing! (Visual, because I have sound turned off.)+

Uploaded game: score is not displayed

  • ekted: In CGoban3, if you load up a completed game, you no longer see the score displayed. I was told in a email response that this feature was intentionally removed. I'd like to propose that it be put back in, or at least discuss the issue.

Resume interrupted game: "Resume-Game" message box with proposed delay of resumption, cancel forces forfeit

  • Random I have a slightly different solution to escaper problem: If someone has a game unfinished and his opponent is online and free to play a window pops up. In it - he can ask his opponent to allow him to play another game before they continue(the delay slider bar may be added to allow 1,2,3 and so on days of delay). If he does not want to - then clicking "Cancel" automatically forfeits the game and allows him to play his next.This way no one is forced to play the game if he does not want to(WMS`s main condition) and also - unfinished games no longer bother escaper`s opponents because of the instant forfeit system.

Ongoing games list: mouse-over info could tell me time settings

  • wysek?: When looking for a game to watch in Active Games, the hint when mouse is over a game should tell me info about time settings (and maybe sth else) just like in Open Games. The info given now is useless - you already see type of game and room name. I don't like watching blitz games and these are common, it's annoying for me to enter games just to see that it's blitz.

User info, games list: "View Offline" in the context menu

  • PaperTiger: Add "View Offline" to the right-click menu when looking at the game list for a user. Currently this requires first loading the game in a room and then viewing it offline.

Games lists: sort by "time per move"

  • Esrig?: Allow a sort on the open games list and elsewhere on "time per move". This would be good for finding games that are fast or slow, as the user prefers. To reduce the initial and byo-yomi times to a single number, divide the initial number by some factor, like 100 or 200, for the number of moves that the initial number might cover. Or perhaps vary it: Canadian 1/10 is 25 moves in 10 minutes, or 24 seconds per move on average. 30 minutes fixed might be 100 moves (per player) in 30 minutes, or 18 seconds per move on average. Between 0 minutes and 30 minutes in the fixed part, linearly interpolate the number of moves that the fixed time portion is intended to cover from 0 to 100.

Hide ignored players in the game offers list

  • glupiagra? I hate some people. I sign it in my options. But they still exists in Opening game (where I search a new games). I need options to hide they.

Rengo game: when browsing, show the player name for the next move to display

  • kevinwm: When browsing through a multi-player game, the "white to play/black to play" changes correctly, but the name of the player who makes the next move does not. It'd be nice to fix that.

Undo, blitz games: undo request, stop clock until you answered

  • TeeSushi : In Blitz Games especially 10 sec byo-yomi it is very stressful if the opponent wants to take back. it would be either nice if you have the possibility to put off take backs for a game (this might be easier to implement) or if the clock stops until you answered the take back.
    • Aguydude: Actually, I like the idea in general of a player's clock being stopped while an opponent's undo window is open. This does not only apply to blitz.

Open games list: rengo games not on the list?

  • When using 'Rooms | Open Games' it is unfair that requests for Rengo games in the 'Social | Rengo Room' don't appear. Rengo games from lots of other rooms appear, but not the ones from the official Rengo room that admins direct you too. The Rengo room should be on an equal footing with other rooms. +

Open games list: filter by type, time settings; context menu with option for players info window

  • labradors: Additional suggestions for the "open games" list:
    • Ability to filter games by type (e.g. only show rated games).
    • Ability to filter out blitz games.
    • Ability to right-click on a player's name in the game list to be able to "view info".
      • RueLue (v.3.4.5): The game challenge window now has a small "?"-button beside the player's name. But this entry in the room owner list would help.

Preferences: More sound options, volume control, voice countdown

  • Hisashi? : A few different sound options for stone placement, or at least the ability to control volume of stone placement and volume of time warning separately. Ability to have time warning on your move only. Ability to have voice countdown of byo-yomi.

Beep, when someone enters/exits the game

  • backpacker?: have a beep go off when someone enters/exits to observe one of your active games. Shut the beep off on the control menu if it is unwanted.

GUI: Board skins, 3D-Board, full screen mode

  • rs220675? : I want more variety on board skins, also maybe a 3D-Board (not as a must but if you want it and if your system can stand it, e.g. to download). And it would be cool to make the Go-board as big as the screen.

Clone game after it ended.

  • Should have the ability to clone the game in another window after it ends. For some reason kgs wont allow it after. +

'Adjourn' button

  • Fernando? : There should be an 'Adjourn' button for when two players want to agree on postponing a game for later and not be marked as escapers.

Tile KGS New Game windows

  • ukiyo?: Multiple New Game windows stack on top of each other. It would be helpful if they were offset so one could select from them without having to drag them apart first.

Remember location of Main Window

  • ukiyo?: Main window initializes in center of screen. I always move it to a corner. I'd like that to be remembered; the position of the KGS Rooms window is remembered even after the client is quit and relaunched.

[22] Editing (topics moved to KGSWishlist / Editing)

[23] Score Estimator =

SE always assumes Japanese scoring

  • The score estimator always assumes Japanese scoring. It should use Chinese scoring in games played with Chinese rules.

SE always on, allow observers to switch to the "marking stones dead" stage

  • LithiumTwo The idea of having a score estimator constantly on, and of helping it... could be both done easily by allowing observers of the game to switch straight to the "marking stones dead" stage of the game (even while moves are being added).

SE: possibility to mark stones as dead; interface for foreign SEs

  • Possibility to help the score estimator by manually specifying which stones are dead and which are alive (click to switch their status) where appropriate. wms isn't making any changes to the score estimator code any time soon; someone else wrote it. ++. Any offers to take it on ?
    • RolandIllig: Will it be possible for other programmers to take their hands on the score estimator? Who wrote it? Where was it published? Under which license? What about an interface for foreign score estimators?

Editing: SE always on and update on every move; "Update" button in the SE window

  • Option when reviewing editing SGF files: to have Score Estimate window available and updated on every move, regardless of its inherent limitations to be used as a guide in this way. (see ScoringEstimatorConsideredHarmful).+ ("irregardless"??...)
    • Good idea - not only for to be used, but also to make the limitations more obvious.
    • liopic: I'm studying yose moves from my games, and this option will be very useful!!
    • RolandIllig: An "Update" button in the score estimator window would be nice. +

Allow use of the SE in free games

  • Allow use of score estimator in Free games.+--

SE seems to be confused by sekis

  • The score estimator seems to be confused by sekis. I think he counts the groups as dead thus leading to a false result. An example is [ext] this game: Altough white won with 17.5 points, score est. thinks black will win with 30.5 points.

Possibility to use GnuGo as SE

  • How about being able to use GnuGo as score estimator like gGo does?

Graph of the score estimate after every move

  • ndkrempel: What would be great would be a graph of the score estimate after every move of the game. With the current score estimator, this would indeed be grossly inaccurate for most of the game, but would be interesting for the endgame, and would give an idea of how wrong (why be so negative? why not say "how close" - DrStraw) the score estimator is in various phases of a game. If the score estimator is ever improved or replaced, this would be even better. +

Remove SE

  • Remove score estimator. +

SE should work well under both scoring systems

  • Fishbulb: there is a problem with the score estimator when the game is set to a ruleset using area scoring. I can pull up games off-line, look at the SE, change the ruleset and look again to see a HUGE difference in the estimated score (even though the actual score difference is almost the exact same... seriously, finished games where SE has everything marked right, but the program just can't count). Can we get a SE that works well under both scoring systems?

Add score estimations in the game comment

  • idefix Being able to see different score estimations calculated at different parts in the game tree (marking them in it).

Allow bots to do the SE; let bots compete to produce the most accurate results

  • typohh: Allow bots to do the SE, and let bots compete which can produce the most accurate results (based on how the games actually turn out). Then show to users the most accurate bots score estimation of the game. If that bot isnt online use second best bot etc for SE etc.

[24] Rule Systems

moved to page KGS Wishlist / Game Settings

[25] Time Systems

moved to page KGS Wishlist / Game Settings

[26] Ratings

moved to page KGS Wishlist / Ratings

[27] Game Start

Simul game: show timer on the tab

  • For simultaneous games it would have been nice if white can see his timer on the tab so he can set a priority to the board to play +

Restrictions, while own game offer open

  • aokun: I am frustrated by not being able to see other players' open game settings while I have an open game on the list, and by not being able to watch a KGSPlus lecture while waiting to get a game. It doesn't seem like a limit on game windows, since one can observe a game at the same time as playing one. Perhaps we could either allow more than one game to be open at a time (maybe limit to two?) or else have unstarted open games not count as "you are playing in a game."

Game: don't start the clock until the first stone is played

Game: Allow users to agree to change game settings before first move

  • Allow users to agree to change game settings before first move. +-
    • This can not go on infinitely, otherwise a game will never start. Perhaps one final adjustment change should be allowed.
    • RueLue: Just close the game window (you are asked, if it shall be saved) and make a new game offer with changed settings. If it's only a matter of handicap: you can pass two, three,... times. Time: "Options" menu -> "Add 5 Minutes" (several times possible)

Open games lists: somehow unstable view; game availability graph (as in Jin chess client)

  • Grauniad: Make the open games lists more stable somehow, so they don't change while you are trying to select a particular game offer, resulting in you selecting the wrong offer.
    • wms: The open game list will only "resort" itself once in every 2+1/2 seconds at most. When I first wrote KGS, I was worried about this problem, and put a lot of work into looking at different systems. I tried not resorting the lasts when the mouse was over them, but that got to be incredibly annoying - if you accidentally left your mouse over a list, it would become way out of date before you noticed. Anyway, I think the current system is a good balance between keeping up to date and making it possible to click on the game/player you intend, so I'll probably leave it as is.
      • Kenn: I'm not sure where to put this request, but having played a bit of chess on FICS with the jin client, I think the game availability graph (strength on one axis, time settings on the other) is a very nice way to solve both this problem and some of the others with regards to finding and discriminating games easily. +++

New game: open games list with more info (DONE); challenge people directly (REJECTED)

  • Starting a game (and finding someone who has the same strength and accepts the time control) takes too long, IMHO. Two Things:
    • First (direct measure): more information (additional columns) in the list of open games (information about time controls especially)
    • Second (more general): If you open your table you set the time controls you want, ok thats good, but then you often wait very long until someone _recognizes_ your table ---> better to challenge people directly with a match request (like on IGS)?? don't know if this is possible.
  • Ian Davis: In my opinion the above is nonsense, I find few problems in finding a game. The only thing that can put people off is preconditions to a game or crazy time limits. Myself I normally receive a challenge within 2 minutes.
  • I find it better to challenge people directly, so they know instantly that you want to challenge them, right in this moment. (Of course chatting can achieve the same result, although a lot slower). The objection to have to deny lots of match offers IMHO does not hold (toggle open/looking solves this). I'm not sure however whether the current architecture of KGS would allow to change this.
  • blubb: You _can_ challenge people directly whenever they are looking for a game. Just keep in mind that at kgs, "being looking" isn't shown by a flag but by a game offer. ;-)
  • wms: blubb has it right. There is absolutely no chance that I will add the IGS-style "send a challenge to any arbitrary person" system. I hated on IGS/NNGS when I'd be watching games and get challenge requests. I'd point out to the people that I didn't have "open" set, and they would always say "oh well, I thought I'd just check and be sure." It drove me nuts, so I very carefully made sure that on KGS, there is: a) no way to miss when you are open for challenges (solved by having people open for challenges show up in the game list as an open game), and b) no way to send a challenge to somebody who isn't open for challenges.
    • The feature you wanted has been in IGS and NNGS for as long as I can remember: if you set yourself to "closed", then there is no way to challenge you.
    • Ah right, I had slightly misremembered. People would often (for good reason) first ask somebody if they wanted a game before issuing the "game" command. Sending challenges is broken when you are marked as "closed", but I would still have to fend off a new "Want a game?" question every few minutes. Grrrr.

Allow multiple open games

  • Allowing multiple open games in general would be good too. Especially demonstration games shouldn't prevent you from playing a game simultaneously.

UI: symbols for blitz and ultra blitz

  • Ansgar?: It would be nice if there was a symbol for blitz and ultra blitz games. This symbol could also stay in the games list after the game started.

UI: automatch button as open as the custom game button

  • oren: Can automatch be made as obvious as the custom game button. Even after playing for a significant period of time there are people who have never seen automatch or tried it. This may be more of a UI issue but having custom game and automatch selected on the same place will have more people try automatch.

User lists: option to observe the game he/she is playing

  • Right side list of players (right click in context menu) --> Add Option to Observe the game he/she is playing.

User lists: Show, that the player is playing (color? icon?)

  • Also show somehow that a player is playing (with an icon or coloring the name differently, maybe). This would combine nicely with the right click --> observe feature. And it'd be nice if the game would be shown in the player's game list without any delay.

"Trail" a player

  • IGS-like ability to "trail" a player would be very nice too.+
    • RueLue: Is this something like stalking? :-)

Challenge declined, show that game in non-bold (or gray)

  • Not a very essential feature, but if your challenge is declined, it would be nice to have that game show in non-bold (or gray) so you don't forget and select it again after a while. Probably not happening very often, but players with "?" ranks do get a lot of declines sometimes (maybe also people looking for high handicap games) and it's possible to lose track of who you challenged already. It should still be possible to challenge again, though, as the opponent may want to play with his settings if you tried to change them.

User info window: input field for the next user to look-up

  • While I am at it - when you are perusing the userstats info, You can't go from one user to another to another. You need to close out the one user, then go back to the menu to ask for another user. I suggest that KGS puts a box in the user info such that when you are looking at one users info, you can immediately type a new user into the box and it will jump to the new users stats.
    Sometimes I will jump from user to user to get an idea of who is playing who, and when I see a list with a new user, I would like to immediately jump to that users stats.

Resume game: give the player to play first some extra time (e.g. 30 seconds)

  • Game Resume suggestion : Give the player who must play first in a resumed game some extra time (60 seconds?) for them to re-aquaint themselves with the board and position. Perhaps only if the game has been idle for 1 hour or more.

Message "Player accepted another challenge", buttons

  • ukiyo: If the game goes to another player you get "The owner of this game has accepted another challenge. You may watch this game, but you are not playing in it." Then you (A) click "OK" to clear the message and (B) click to close the Game window, unless you want to watch it. Instead of "OK", provide: Option 1: Close message window & Close the Game window (most typical action). Option 2: Close message window only (what OK does now). Example: The owner of this game has accepted another challenge. You may watch this game, but you are not playing in it. Close the Game? YES NO
    This is to reduce the number of action needed to deal with games one does not get to play

Challenge queue

  • Set up a challenge queue for each player. Lets call the player "Tom". When "Tom" wants to play a new game, he goes to his challenge queue and selects the player on the queue that he wants to play next. If I want to add my name to "Tom's" challenge queue, I right click on his name, and a drop-down menu appears next to the cursor. I click on the word "Challenge" on the drop-down menu, and my name is then added to his challenge queue. If I log out of the server, then my name is dropped from "Tom's" challenge queue. When "Tom" picks my name on his challenge queue, I see a pop-up window only if I'm not playing in a game.

Challenge screen, not enough time to adjust settings (CHANGED BEHAVIOUR)

  • When you join a game with an open player, the challenge screen pops up. While you're setting the parameters you want, someone else grabs the opponent and you are out of a game. The challenge screen should lock you in to your game for at least 30 seconds or a minute, so you have time to adjust your parameters and start your game.
    • (v.3.4.5): Only the offerer can change the settings (handicap and komi are allowed after choosing colour)

[28] Game End

Rengo: needs dialog box "Your partner wants to resign. Agree?"

  • For a resignation in a rengo, normally both partners have to agree. In contrast, the current KGS implementation lets one player resign without asking his partner first. A short dialog box "Your partner wants to resign. Agree?" is needed for normal rengo behaviour. ++

Undo in scoring phase: collide with Japanese rules

  • After both players pass, one player can just click undo and play again - this is against the rules! (for sure in Japanese rules, not sure about Chinese rules). The Japanese rules clearly state that after both players are past one player can demand that the game be resumed, but the other player moves first when it is (and this move can, of course, be a pass). Could we please change it? I think the other one is much better.
    • I second this. It should be sufficient to require that the undo is approved by the opponent (like any undo). As final game records show, the server recognizes this situation as two undos in a row. I second this not only because it is against the rules but also very rude. I had two games recently, where my opponent would have lost by a narrow margin and used this loophole to make pointless invasions, simply hoping for a reading error on my side (otherwise he/she would have made the invasion before passing). In the second game, well, I made a reading error, losing the game. I got very angry and got nearly banned due to this. I know it is very difficult to enforce appropriate social behaviour by technical means, but in this case it might be feasible.

Undo game result because of overlooked dead stones (REJECTED)

  • It sometimes happens that when marking dead stones at the end of the game both players miss a hard-to-spot dead stone or stones and press Done, and thus the end score is wrong. I have even witnessed a game between very high dans where white should have won but because he missed one dead stone he lost the game. So I suggest some way of going back to the dead stone marking stage even after both players have pressed Done. (It probably would be a good idea that it's not possible to go back to the game anymore, only to the dead-stone marking stage.)
    • Sebastian: My first reaction was "no - people should just treat the scoring as serious as any move in the game". Which, logically, lead to: This should simply be handled as an undo request. (Maybe it already is, never tried it out.)
    • wms: I don't think this will happen. There must be some point where the result of the game is final. If people notice a scoring mistake 2 months after the game ends, should they be able to reopen and re-score? I don't think so. On KGS, the moment that you press that done button, you are saying "I am 100% happy with the score of this game and I won't ever try to change it." If you aren't yet certain of the score, if you might want to change it later, then don't press the done button. That's all there is to it. Up until both players press "Done", the score can be changed, the game can even be restarted by just pressing "Undo," but once you have pressed "Done" you accept the current score, and once both players accept the current score, that's that, the game is done.
    • Sebastian: Good point. I'm convinced. Moreover, you have all the time you want before pressing "done". And it's only one button, so it can't be a clicko.
    • Cheyenne: Possible solution, have the "done" processing do a check to see if it can spot any uncleared dead stones (maybe use some of the function from the score est). If there is, then indicate that there is a possible problem and require another click to continue with the "DONE".
      • RueLue: This solution could help beginners.
    • Warp: My idea was that spectators could tell the players that they forgot to mark some dead stone (this is why it's important that they can't continue playing after both have clicked Done). After they leave the game then that would be final... Another idea: How about marking non-scoring territory very visibly (I don't have any good idea right now how to do that but somehow which is very easy to see): This way if at some place they forget to mark a stone it will be very eye-catching that there's some non-scoring territory left there. (Of course it could be confused with unfilled dame points and sekis, so I don't really know if it would help that much after all... It would be necessary to test it in practice.)
    • TJ: Done is done, that's why it says "done". It has to be final at some point. If you can't find dead stones in a game you just finished playing better than a mere observer or, heaven forbid, a computer, then you deserve to lose anyways! Never having played in a tournament or seen one even, I assume that opponents score games together and agree on a score (eventually) there too, final score being final, so why make things complicated in order to help the careless or ignorant remain so on a go server?
    • Sebastian: Actually, Warp's idea is neat. Why not mark dame points with a red triangle, if it helps newbies? It doesn't diminish the fun for advanced players and should be easy to implement.
      • Rakshasa: I'd rather not be distracted by colorful icons while checking the board for dead stones.
      • I agree with Sebastian - mark dame points somehow after two passes (or have it as an option)

Result box could be generated without focus and/or backgrounded

  • jeremiah: A dialogue box pops up to announce the final result. This takes application focus away from the text window where the user is often trying to thank his opponent for the match. The need to stop and dismiss the result box is an annoyance. Perhaps the result box could be generated without focus and/or backgrounded.++

Allow to agree on draw as result

  • allow, when both players agree, to end the game as formally finished and rate it as a draw (for the game list and rating system) -

Dispute solving: Logical Japanese Rules of Go #17

  • Implement any of the dispute breakers below to let players come to a (more or less) Japanese result without referee:

Review: allow one player take control, when the other left

  • Once a game ends and one of the players "reviews" it for a few moves and leaves it, allowing the opponent to take control as the new "reviewer" would be a very useful feature. (Or maybe add "Review separately" to open a review of this game in a separate window, and ask each user with a msgbox whether s/he wants to join the new review window... Of course other alternatives or variations are also possible... Any ideas?) Reuven

Game, demo etc.: closing gives pop-up window, but buttons could be clearer

  • When "closing" certain game windows, a pop-up window appears asking the user whether or not he wants to save the game. The options are "Yes", "No", "Do not close". I always have to stop and think for a few seconds at this point because although I asked to close, I am being prompted whether or not I would like to save. It would all be much smoother is the options were "save and close", "close without saving", "do not close" or, at a minimum, "save", "do not save", "do not close". - Migeru

Challenge same opponent again

  • Coronalis: In many case, opponents want a "revenge". Then why not a button "Propose a revenge at your opponent ?" and so a party can be create with same game parameter in the case of handicap game or with reverse stone (black->white, white->black) if the opponent are the same level. Another option could be open the parameter window with the previous game parameter with a switch stone...
  • NickGeorge: Perhaps some sort of ray-gun, to facilitate swift retribution on opponents you think ought not to have been able to beat you.

Challenge same opponent again

  • hikari99: One of the things I can mention on KGS that will get the most support, which they have on many other go servers, is a simple rematch feature.

UI: change board graphics

  • DragonN: Jago graphic of the board and stones are very nice. it would be nice to change the current board graphic into jago design

Support GnuGo for play and analysis

  • Ksi: It should support GnuGo as a playing opponent like Cgoban1 does. That way people can play practice games or simulate some analyses.

Game interruption, escapes: dialog box "Claim Win? [Yes] [No]"

  • If a players leaves during a game a dialog box should come up that says "Your opponent has ESCAPED!!!11 Claim Win? [Yes] [No]"
    • WMS believes that people should have the right to refuse to play a person. Counting this as a loss is not appropriate. So, this feature is unlikely to be introduced. Besides, having your connection die for 30s should not give your opponent the opportunity to count the game as won.

Rengo, interruption: allow a kibitzer to play on

  • Rengo games typically end prematurely by single escapers who ruin the fun for the other 3. I would like a timer to establish escaping beyond a reasonable doubt (say 2 min) and then the spot be given, by the abandoned team mate, to any kibitzer, or be playable by the sole team mate at that time. +

Dispute solving: hypothetical play mode for Japanese rules

  • Add hypothetical play mode to the Japanese rules: One big problem with KGS (and most other game servers too, I suppose) is that it presents a problem when playing with Japanese rules: After the game has ended and there's a dispute about the status of a group, there's no way of demonstrating that status (at least not without actually continuing the game and very possibly changing the score difference, possibly at the loss of the player who was winning). One very typical case is when there's a bent4-in-the-corner, in a situation where it's unambiguously dead (regardless of the ruleset) and the owner of the group disputes that and refuses to allow it to be marked dead. Currently the only solution is to call a stronger player and make him try to convince the owner of the group that it indeed is dead. This problem could have a simple solution: Simply implement what the Japanese rules say: Add a hypothetical playing mode which can be activated at the dead-stone-removal stage. Passing is the only valid ko threat, and after the players have finished the hypothetical playing, the board is restored to its previous state. (If a player protests to these "limitations" then he can be told to play with other rulesets if he doesn't like the Japanese ones, because KGS is adhering strictly to the rules.)

Undo: penalty x points komi adjustment

  • John Collins: Proposal for "undos" - option to allow undos if the "undoer" is "fined" so many points (komi adjusted) for each allowed "undo". "Fine" set in advance at start of game - default 5 points (I suggest).

Review: allow one player take control, when the other left

  • Kanin: When a game is over one of the players can take control and start reviewing the game. After that player leaves it's not possible for the other player to take control and start reviewing the game, instead he/she must reload the game. This is not possible´, however, when there still are observers left in the game. Not a huge problem but quite annoying at times.

Game end: observers cannot review (local = DONE), save to disk (DONE), or clone

  • Esrig: More difficulties with cloning in end-of-game states, similar to report by Kanin. When a game is done, observers cannot Review, Save to Disk, or Clone until all the other observers have left. Save to Disk and Clone should be permitted during this period. As an added bonus, Save to Disk should be permitted during a review at least for the person doing the review. If the reviewer leaves, the review state should be released. Disabling these features means that the game is in limbo until all observers have left.


Cannot load game privately until all players leave.

  • BrenBarn?: When I finish a game, I often want to load it and review it privately without the opponent or observers kibitzing. Currently this cannot be done. I can save the game locally, but I cannot "Load (p)" the game online if the other player is still reviewing it without having closed it.

The way it should work is that as soon as the game ENDS, it is available for private loading (possibly by multiple people at the same time). How many people are still viewing the open (but completed) game should not matter. The game is over when both players have accepted the score.

No resigning at the counting phase"

  • This has more to do with etiquette than game play, since a large number of players on KGS seem to play until the end and then at the counting phase resign rather than have the point loss display. You aren't able to do this in real life so why allow it online? Once the counting starts, the resign button should be disabled. This is not only rude to the opponent who had to play a game that was already won, but it also wastes their time. A win is a win, but being made to play until the end when you're planning to resign anyway is quite rude to your opponent. This way the game may end at a sooner stage, rather than having it drag on only to have it reach the counting phase and then someone resigning because the score difference is too high. Counting is also part of the game, they need to learn how to tell when they're behind.

KGS Wishlist / Game Handling last edited by on January 29, 2015 - 08:40
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