Sub-page of KGSWishlist

This is the discussion page for KGSWishlist, for those discussions that are better placed here than in the forum.

Table of contents

Current WikiMasterEdit (10-2010)



tapir: Maybe it is time to ask how the wishlists should look like after reworking them. I feel like a) three discussion pages is two too much, b) unsorted wished should not be kept in future (or is anybody volunteering in tidying up?) but the structure of these pages should be more easy to understand. Will there be a subpage for granted requests? (Some extra work, but will show that it works.)

RueLue: Thank you for directing your attention to the wishlists!
I (would) try to get an overview of all wishes (also the rejected ones), sort them and then decide, which of them have no chance. This is, what I tried the last weeks: give every wish a header (4x'='), if needed split the attributions into the single wishes, give them tags (e.g. game window, games list, user lists, chat, ...), sort them and then move some wishes: rejected, archive (those with no support), done, (...?). I wouldn't delete any wish. Seemingly foolish wishes may lead to a good idea (see the wish lists as some kind of brainstorming), some attributions have parts, which can help realize another wish.

Pages' organisation

tapir: Some outline on how you plan to proceed further would be highly welcome. That way I can help without interfering your activities. Your sub-headed all the wishes as far as I know already, now what next? Consolidating multiple wishes into single ones, remove implemented wishes (altogether or on a subpage)? Also it would be nice to know how to proceed with all those discussion 1 2 3 pages, I would simply remove the old WME-organizing stuff which seems obsolete now but got the impression you are a bit more conservative in removing sth. from these pages. Cheers.

RueLue: The idea is, to organize it by function (games list, user list, chat, ...), but let the people by window decide, where they want to add something. So, the overview page has the listing of the windows with the elements and the links go to the pages with chapters of the functions. This is not completely thought over.
- Every page could have reminders of how to contribute and how to support (or refuse) a wish; the wishes main page can reflect some thoughts of wms.

tapir: How about organizing by client side appearance - game, game offer, room, user info, private chat + some metapages? Putting a box with a reminder in the top right of all wishlist pages is pretty easy.

RueLue: Chat and lists are for several windows the same, so wishes become entered twice and triple. More: specially the games handling page has too many topics (over 300) and can this way be split.
* As far as I have thought it over, there can be a page for every client window; some elements can be summed up in extra pages, as e.g. chat. And when a topic (e.g. rules, game types) has too many entries, it gets its own page.
* Technical and Security can be on the same page ("Technical", alias = Security)
* KGS-Plus and Organization can be on the same page ("KGS-Plus", alias = Organization)
* File handling becomes split, same goes with Social, but both pages can remain with the links to the appropriate places.
* Every page has links to appropriate places for nearby wishes (e.g. social -> user info, chat, user-lists ...).
* Every page for a client window has a screen-shot with the naming for the elements (I can upload them to KGS).

tapir: Yes, but they were entered twice to ten times in the old days as well. Hope the better navigation will solve this now. I guess you recognized the new edit behaviour, but still validating, reorganizing and consolidating wishes looks pretty tedious.

Archive or throw away

tapir: I was not able to tell your preference from "I have a copy." - does it mean you like those discussions a lot or that I can proceed to remove it. I now put all of them at /OldDiscussion pending further comments. About the archives: Do you think of one unified archive subpage, or an archive page for each subpage? What happens with "DONE" wishes? Remove them or do you want some kind of archive for them?

RueLue: "copy" - not more than a page, saved to my hd; as you read about the sort-games-page/-wish: thoroughly reading a text can lead to a good understanding of the correlation.
RueLue: "archive" - I don't think, that too much is solved or done. First put all on one page with chapters, if the page becomes too heavy - let's see. One reason for "archive": I spent really many hours in collecting topics for the KGS-FAQ and writing it (that is now two years ago and it needs revised). Some requests (which have a do-it-yourself solution) are good material.
Another reason is the Go Software for the Future page: Some ideas may not have a future in CGoban - another software may be a good application area for one or the other rejected or support-less wish.

Page navigation

tapir: I would like to have another than navigation by footnote in future. You can link directly or put invisible anchors at the page.

RueLue: I already saw the special template. Great idea, I'm going to use it for the chapters. ... but I think, I wait with further massive editing until the editing behavior is repaired and improved.

Further work on the topic titles

RueLue: the wishes can have tags correlating with user's and programmer's view:

  1. user's view: per windows (game, user info, rooms, rooms list, ...
  2. programmer's view: per window element / server duty (board, games list, chat, users list, rooms list, rating calculation, window organization, ...

This is something, what still can be done, without much preparation. Some topics already have these tags (e.g."Game, UI: click on players name..."). It is not obsolete, when the topics are scatted to the appropriate pages: When a contributor looks through the pages, he finds relevant wishes faster.

Test, if the topics still valid, add version-#

Some wishes on these wishlists are very old, sometimes more than 5 years! But there is still need to go through the wishes and test, if they are still valid (e.g. sgf game collection behavior, commands in the chat line, ...). If they are valid: add the version-#, e.g."(v.3.4.5)"

tapir: This is important. Maybe we should ask for the version number in all new wishes. These pages grew in a rush some years ago with less activity after they became too incomprehensible.

Sub-chapter levels

tapir: I feel like three should be the upper limit. Together with the first level sub-pages we already have four levels then. Anything more is too much, in my humble opinion. Because it would be rather difficult to understand the page organisation. Btw, even /social uses only two levels right now.

Pages' Structure:

Idea 1: whole page

 Page title (= <h1>) is always extra and not listed in the TOC
 as normal bold text: Page-# as listed in the overview page, plus
 the page topic in some words
 Preface (<h3>)
 (some sentences)
 <h2> (==) chapter
  <h3> (===) sub-chapter
   <h4> (====) topic (section)
   <h4>    ...
   <h4>    ...
  <h3> (===) sub-chapter
   <h4>    ...
   <h4>    ...
   <h4>    ...
  <h3> (===) sub-chapter
   <h4>    ...
   <h4>    ...
 <h2> (==) chapter
  <h3> (===) sub-chapter
   <h4>    ...
   <h4>    ...
  <h3> (===) sub-chapter
   <h4>    ...
  <h3> (===) sub-chapter
   <h4>    ...

Idea 2: when it's needed to have more levels of sub-chapters

Table of contents

##### (h2) (== ##### (h2))

. ##### (h2.5) (== . ##### (h2.5))

o.k. the points don't look really nice, but in the toc you have a better display

#### (h3) (=== #### (h3))

. ##### (h3.5) (=== . ##### (h3.5))

##### (h4) (==== ##### (h4))

. ##### (h4.5) (==== . ##### (h4.5))

Idea 3

Introductory words (every page?):

 purpose of the program (client, teaching, ...)
 simplicity of the UI (concise, easy to grasp, ~self-explanatory, ...)
 bytes through the line a) client (1.5Mb) b) protocol
 how to contribute (name, client version), support, decline, ...

Idea 4

Idea 5

Splitting the chapters:

Splitting the Windows:

  • game window: board, chat, observers list, title bar, buttons, options menu, game info (clocks etc.),
  • game info window (game, editing):
  • editing window (review, demo, teaching):
  • rooms window: chat, players list, games (+ open games) lists, buttons, menus, tabs, ...
  • rooms list window
  • edit room window
  • user info
  • server stats
  • preferences
  • login window
  • stats window (6 buttons)
  • user lists (fan, buddy, ...)
  • game setup / game challenge window: game settings, challenger list, chat, info,
  • automatch

Social (idea)

censor, buddy, ... (abstract: special lists)
escapermechanisms - game, discipline, administration
user info - statistics, pictures, tabs, games list
bad-/nice-guy(-gal) points
chat, messages
room management
guests + new users
bans, kicks, pre-bans, sanctions
offense detection, flooder, bad words
accepted language(s) in room x or game y

User interface (UI)

Words of wms, found on one of the wish lists: any feature that people need to turn off with an option probably shouldn't be there in the first place - and any option that needs more than 5 seconds to understand definitely shouldn't be there.

Accessibility, visibility
optics, design
clearness + words of wms
mouse, icons

The window elements:

user list
games list
chat box

Text snippets

How to support or dislike a wish
If you like, you can give your thumb-up or thumb-down for the wishes: just add behind the wish a "+"- or "-"-mark as follows: [+|YourName] or [-|YourName] (if you have no user page here, it becomes -? or +?).

KGSWishlist/Discussion last edited by on March 30, 2011 - 03:07
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