KGS Wishlist / Lists

15. Lists

Preface

List elements are in several client windows and have all the similar functionality.

• names list: game window / editor (online), main window, fan/buddy/ignore list, room selection window ...
• games list: rooms window, user info (...and more?)
• rooms list(s): in the room selection window (are there more room lists for admins?)

So we collect all ideas and wishes regarding lists in any client window here.

If you are new to KGS:

If you just used KGS for the first time, these wishlist pages may be quite confusing to you. Your experience, however, is very valuable and you can help to improve KGS by adding it to KGS First Time User Experience.

Remark:

CGoban 3.5 (mai 2011) of the KGS client introduces remarks in privat user lists (e.g. buddies, ignore etc.)

Table of contents Preface If you are new to KGS: Remark: Unsorted Games list: "Clone Game" in the context menu; "Clone Game(P)" Buddies, Fans, Ignored: allow notices Dialogues: right click on any name brings up user info Game window: click on any user chat text to jump to the related board position Criteria for filtering what games are shown More context options when right clicking on a game Demonstration games: text from teachers bold or something Names list: Jump to a name/rank in the sorted list of players Chat text, comments: library feature, button or context menu entry takes you to the page on Sensei's Rooms: search in rooms list Lists: sort lists up/down Rooms: sort games by number of moves played Rooms list: search all descriptions for a specific word Buddy list: show "Last On" date Icon for tournament winners who are also administrators User lists: icons optional User lists: add some smiley to display a friend User lists: mark people who have a game going Rooms: Separate human games from robot games Games list: Open games grouped 15.1 Names Lists Buddy list: in separate pane on top or with separate scroll bar (? DONE ?) Buddy list: show "online"-mark, which room User lists: "Join game" in context menu User lists: different display of playing users User list: see, who is playing a game User lists: putting unsolid (?) ranks at the bottom - could be changed back? (REJECTED) Export/import buddy, fan, ignore lists (plain-text format) User lists: indicate "playing" / "observing a game" Context Menu 15.2 Games lists Open games list: More columns with information, sortable Rooms, games list: allow to see, what a game looks like by "mouse over" Open games list: allow robots to be filtered out or split list Games lists: column headers, sortable (resume game = DONE) Rooms: option to turn off "Private" games Rooms, games list: highlight my buddies' games (DONE: fan tab) Games lists: more sort options, columns can be ordered Show time limit 15.3 Rooms lists Rooms list: sort by current members

Unsorted

Games list: "Clone Game" in the context menu; "Clone Game(P)"

• Karl Knechtel: Add 'Clone Game' to the context sensitive menu offered by right-clicking a game in the list. Also, offer 'Clone Game(P)' whereever 'Clone Game' is offered.

Buddies, Fans, Ignored: allow notices

• Notes: allow notes to be recorded for each buddy. --Shay + +
  • The same for "fans" (idols) RueLue
  • The same for ignored users RueLue

Dialogues: right click on any name brings up user info

• Info on Dialogues: allow right click on any conversationist to pull up their info. Consider showing their rank next to name. +

Game window: click on any user chat text to jump to the related board position

• Ability to click on any user text in game window to set game to position when that text was typed.

Criteria for filtering what games are shown

• Ekted: Users should be able to set some criteria for filtering what games are shown based on: absolute/relative, rank, ruleset, time system, time, censored players. I realize this is somewhat complex, but I only ever consider playing in a small subset of the game list, so why show it all? For example, I may want to only see games within 3 ranks of me, japanese rules, 15+ minutes, and NOT against anyone who I have marked as censored.
  • Neil: I think this has been discussed before elsewhere, with wms coming down in favor of UI simplicity. Maybe still survives in one of the archived discussion pages?
  • Matt Noonan: I would like to propose some kind of middle ground. There could be some controls at the bottom of the open games window with the simplest options, like "Minimum Rank", "Maximum Rank" and an "Alert" checkbox. If the box is checked and a new game offer appears in your range, the tab could turn blue.+
  • goulo: I care about the time controls for games. It is a hassle to click on many games and see game after game which is too fast. Why can't the game list show an abbreviated hint about the time controls in game's line of text? It wouldn't take much text, e.g. "30M+BY" or "5M SD" or some such abbreviation system. That gives an idea if it's a game that will be too fast or too slow for my taste. If there's room to show "19x19" and "9x9", there is surely room to show "30M" or "1M", etc...++

More context options when right clicking on a game

• jhouse More context options when right clicking on a game. Specifically of interest to me is "view info" when right clicking on an open game to view the creator's info.
  • wms: HELP! THIS PAGE NEEDS A FAQ! Sorry jhouse, but you are about the 5th person to ask for this, and it's already there! Just click the game. Don't press "OK" to send in a challenge. Instead press the "?" button next to the player's name. You get their info. I prefer it there, because 99% of the time you are considering challenging the person; this way, if you decide that you want to, you already have the challenge window opened up, there was no need to open a popup menu.
  • GG?: I second jhouse's wish. It is an option that I intuitively expected in the game's context menu. And although I was looking, I did not find out about the "?" button myself but just learned that right here. Given that many people apparently have the same problem, maybe add the context menu entry? Please? :)
    • Oryx: Yes, the Game/? feature is great and very powerful -- but its counter intuitive. Can't the user's info be available from both places?
  • MK: It's not this page that needs a faq, it's KGS that needs an update on help files so that people find out what is possible on KGS and don't ask for it anymore...
  • (Sebastian:) [7001] You are right, MK! See discussion about help on the web.

Demonstration games: text from teachers bold or something

• Fwiffo: It would be nice if text from teachers in demonstration games was bold or a different color or something. ++++++
  • Neil: Bold is out because it already is used to designate admins, but I'm sure this feature will go in as soon as Mr. Shubert gets a chance to use icons next to the names.
    • Fwiffo: I was talking about the text in the chat area, not the user list. It was prompted by a demonstration game where the teacher was typing in all caps so that they could be seen over the chatter of all the observers. Then there was even more chatter because people kept asking him why he was shouting. So he stopped using it, but then everyone started getting confused, so he switched back and forth for a while until everyone was annoyed. :-)
  • Neil: Yes, I missed the words "text from." I'm bet the icon idea will apply to both, though. :-)
  • RussellKhan: Perhaps another way of accomplishing this would be to allow users to select people whose text will be highlighted - maybe as a feature of the buddy list (maybe not, maybe entirely separate, as a per-session only setting).

Names list: Jump to a name/rank in the sorted list of players

• Spingle?: I couldn't find this suggestion anywhere. A way to jump to a name/rank in the sorted list of players. Press "j" to jump to "jaaaaa" for instance, I was initially thinking of this idea for the main games page in the english room, it is nice to see how many people of about the same rank are on. I guess this could also be done for rank. Thnx.

Chat text, comments: library feature, button or context menu entry takes you to the page on Sensei's

• Conan: I have 2 suggestions. 1)some kind of library feature. just a button that takes the word and opens the browser to senseis link or something. This way people would stop asking "what is kikashi? " cuz its a pain :P
  • Oryx: I'd suggest as a rt-click on the word, have this in chat, room, and game comments. Also, have the lookup destination settable, in options, but in any case the lookup feature would be really powerful :D

Rooms: search in rooms list

• Conan: 2) the categories in the rooms thing is really primitive. It hurts more than helps, lookgin for a room is a real pain, maybe you could add a search feature in that too. I ve been driven insane looking for "something go club" when it was "the something go club".

Lists: sort lists up/down

• savra?: I would like to sort the tables like in GTK instead of the CGoban2 context menus. With the possiblity to sort from up to down and reverse.+

Rooms: sort games by number of moves played

• infraredux: I would love to be able to sort games in a room by number of moves played so I can catch a game from close to the beginning.+

Rooms list: search all descriptions for a specific word

• wms: Got an email request for the ability to search all room descriptions for a specific word.

Buddy list: show "Last On" date

• crux: The buddy list could show a "Last On" date for everyone.

Icon for tournament winners who are also administrators

• Warp: Add a new icon for tournament winners who are also administrators: A star with a little crown on top of it. (Actually four icons would have to be created, one for each color combination of the star and the crown.)

User lists: icons optional

• Warp: Perhaps make the icons optional (ie they could be turned off and on in the preferences dialog). If they are turned off, the empty column reserved for the icons could be removed.+

User lists: add some smiley to display a friend

• chrpa: Hello wms, can you add some smiley to display a friend and leave the friend in the order, not just at the top? Thank you. Hope it will help.

User lists: mark people who have a game going

• erislover: I would love to see a bit of text, maybe a *, next to people in the rooms list who have a game going. I like to be a spectator in friends' games but to know whether they're in one you have to keep checking user info. +

Rooms: Separate human games from robot games

• I'd like to see human games and robot games displayed in separate sections of the list window, or a control to suppress robot games.

Games list: Open games grouped

• Personal experience shows that the most important pieces of information regarding a game are:
  1. board size
  2. time settings
  3. game type (free/ranked/etc.)
• Of those, board size is something people usually decide on before going through the list of open games. Then comes searching through the list with mouseover for tooltips to check the time settings, paired with looking at the "R" or "F" flag at the far left. I suggest that the games be grouped to elucidate this:

19x19 ———
R MacTheFast[4d]                Blitz, 5d+ please
R TheCaptain[4d]                Fast
F kissmz[1d]                    Medium
R mike2[4k]                     Medium, 4k only

13x13 ———
F randomgast                    Blitz

9x9 ———
F wwwwwwwwww                    Fast
F DrPerryCox[-]                 Medium

37x37 ———
beerslayer[-]                   Long

Tooltips would still provide further information about the game. Standard board sizes would come first in the list, with nonstandard sizes sorted below, if any.

15.1 Names Lists

Buddy list: in separate pane on top or with separate scroll bar (? DONE ?)

• Buddy list in true separate pane locked on top or separate scroll bar? +++

Buddy list: show "online"-mark, which room

• Buddy list shows
  1. buddy that is online, even if not in the current room and
  2. which room buddy is in, if not in the current one. +++++

User lists: "Join game" in context menu

• Shay 09/30/2008: In the right hand player column: When right clicking on a player could I "join game".

User lists: different display of playing users

• Shay 09/30/2008: Could you have a different font or symbol or boldness for players that are actively playing. Thus, when right clicking I could decide if to chat or if to watch game.

User list: see, who is playing a game

• Related idea. I a way to see who in a room is playing a game. We can already see who is active/idle, admin/assist/normal, tourney winner, guest/rated/unrated, etc. I want to know if they are playing. If they are playing a public game, I would like a conrxt menu option to allow me to observe. +

User lists: putting unsolid (?) ranks at the bottom - could be changed back? (REJECTED)

• The new system of putting unsolid (?) ranks at the bottom with guests is great, but means we no longer see players that are 9d? who have never lost a game but deserve to be up at the top. With the new ranking system that means players can't get even 8k? without beating a 10k, Surely this could be changed back?
  • wms: Could be, but won't be. Before there was a lot of confusion where people would get upset when somebody with a rank of "1d?" ended up being not 1d. The "?" was there to indicate that the rank was just a guess, and could be wrong by many stones in either direction, but apparently people didn't realize this and would assume that "1d?" really meant that the person was 1d. The new system makes it totally unmistakeable that uncertain ranks are not on a par with accurate ranks, and I will not be changing it back. It caused too much trouble before, the problem of the new system (people whose "?" ranks are accurate being put down low in the sorting order) is much less severe.
  • (Nemir:) Would it be possible to alter the ranking systesm with a special case if someone wins enough games (say 4 or so) against players of 7d or greater rank? That would mean that strong, undefeated players are solidified and then are at the top of the sort by rank list... For example, Tartrate will never get a solid rank, because he won't ever lose a second game against an amateur player.
  • blubb: I guess the change should be done for "9d?" only, because "8d" and "8d?" definitely are different. The highest rank available is "9d?", so all the undefeated >"8d" players pile up there, no matter if they could give 2 or even 4 stones to "8d" opponents. I think that makes the questionmark to 9d ranks as reasonable as meaningless. (The latter applies if there is no 9d player without a questionmark. I am not sure about that.) Anyways, I agree, it would be nice to see their games at top.+
  • Nemir: Well, perhaps, but as I am around 9k now I like watching games between players around 2k - 2d as much as anything else because I have some hope of understanding what they're up to. I guess the problem I see with this is that one problem (the error range of ? ranks) has been resolved by two different methods. One method, unfortunately, has a cost to the server in that we can no longer as easily keep track of players with some strenght. The other method, not allowing ranks greater than 10k? to be granted without defeating someone of a suitable rank would be a suitable method and still allow everyone to keep track of these players.
  • (Anonymous): "8d" and "8d?" may be different, but definitely "8d?" is not weaker than "25k", yet gets sorted below that level. This is the problem, I think. Suggestion: Players who already had a solid rank but lost it for some reason could still be sorted in the usual place, regardless of the "?". ("9d?" should still be a special case, I suppose.) Does this make any sense?
  • (Anonymous too): Some people find having to check two sorted lists highly annoying (e.g. me), and would like at least an option to sort these in one list. The other solution would be to not to show [Xd?] at all, [?] only. If it's not a real rank, don't show it at all (it just confuses/annoys people). If it is a real rank (all ranks are guesses anyway -- otherwise nobody would complain of "sandbaggers"), then sort them with the rest.
  • Cyclone001?: I'd also like to see the high dan ? players near the top. Currently I have most of them on my buddy list for this very reason. This whole situation came about because it used to be possible that a newbie would lose spectacularly to a 9d, become 8d? and decieve people. When the change was made (good change) that 10k and better had to win to get a temporary rank, this became more cumbersome than anything else to players 10k and up I think. Perhaps the best solution would be to give temporary ranks only to people who beat someone and have them grouped together like before - or at least have that as a sorting option.
  • Harleqin: I don't play many rated games. As soon as I get the dreaded '?' after my rank, it becomes very hard for me to get a game, because my game offer is sorted below the beginners. I play less and less because of that. Because of the mechanism that you have to win at least once to get a temporary rank, there is no need to punish people for not having a solid rank.

Export/import buddy, fan, ignore lists (plain-text format)

• Tapir: I would like to have exportable plain-text buddy, fan and most important ignore lists complete with an import option (to import them on a secondary account).
• phoenixsei: A friend in KGS asked: XY0908: My wish is: import or export the buddy list between accounts. (moved from unsorted)

User lists: indicate "playing" / "observing a game"

• Symbol to show player involved in a game in user list. However, may encourage people to arrange games by private chat. +
• Ability to see if a person is playing/observing a game and where, unless the person forbids being tracked.++-
  • Automatically see person's status by typeface/icons.
    • This is against the design of KGS, for various very consciously decided upon reasons wms went into. -
      • (as suggested by Snoopicus in EGR:) At the very least, there should be a different color in the room's user list for someone who's busy playing a game, similarly to how there already is a different color (grey) for someone who's "sleeping". This would save on the step of clicking on their name to chat, only to see the message at the top of the chat window informing one that the person is playing a game. +

Context Menu

15.2 Games lists

Open games list: More columns with information, sortable

• More columns with information in the open games list, e.g. time, rules, etc and the possibility to sort the games by that+++

Rooms, games list: allow to see, what a game looks like by "mouse over"

• Allow someone to see what a game looks like by moving their mouse over the game instead of having to open it. So if you are just looking for a game to watch you don't waste your time opening and closing.-

Open games list: allow robots to be filtered out or split list

• allow robots to be filtered out of open games window: see how cluttering: (and ive seen the ratio be 12 robots,4 humans at one point) see http://codejanitor.us/robots.png16
  • I agree with the above, though I would prefer if the open games window was split into two parts; one with humans and one for computer players.

Games lists: column headers, sortable (resume game = DONE)

• nmne? Please add column headers to the game list tables to allow the user to sort by player name, room name, board size, etc. This makes it very easy to find a game involving a specific player. A few times, I have had my internet connection go down while playing. When I reconnect, I am not automatically routed back to the game I was playing, so I have to scroll through a large list of active games to find the one I was playing. One time this happened, I couldn't find the game, so I must have logged a loss for escaping the game, even though I was not escaping intentionally.
  • glue use the resume button when you relog, your game is listed there. Note that you can sort the games list by playername, use right click on tht list and select the sorting option you want.
    • RueLue: ... but the possibility of sorting the games lists by columns is good.

Rooms: option to turn off "Private" games

• Tapir: I would like an option to turn off "Private" games... if they are private it is somehow strange to see them all the time on the top (because often given by high-dan or pro players) of the game list.++
  • RueLue: I think, this is some kind of advertising for the pro lessons, so if you are a free user: stand it!
  • Tapir: Well, I am taking lessons already. And of course it is the same issue for KGSplus users afaik. You may join the KGS+ lectures (i was not talking about them anyway and they are advertised by the room announcements anyway), but not the private games someone starts in EGR. There is a similar request limited to fan games (where you really do not want to see whether your favorite player is giving lessons right now or not).

Rooms, games list: highlight my buddies' games (DONE: fan tab)

• In the Open and Active Games rooms, display the userids of players who are on one's buddy list. Buddies may not show up in the room you happen to be in so you are not aware of their presence. Open Games is the most convenient place to look for general game postings, so I spend a lot of time there. Active Games is another logical place to put this.

Games lists: more sort options, columns can be ordered

• Ksi?: There should be a sort option in the game rooms, allowing people to sort by anything they want, ascending or descending on any column with just a click. The columns should also be able to be dragged and dropped, so users can reorder it. This layout would be similar to how an Excel spreadsheet would function.

Show time limit

• Tapir: There should be a way to learn the time limit before actually joining the game. It is always a disappointment when you want to watch a high-level game, but instead you get an odd blitz game to watch. As most games are fast, it would be a great help for watching slow games.

• • Shabidoo: I second this request for both the same and the opposite reason. Some times a user wants to watch a long serious game, other times an intense blitz game (I personally prefer to watch blitz most of the time). It is tedious having to open many games until one can find one. If the time limit rules was put in a column in the games list, one could better select a type of game they want to watch. Is it feasable?

15.3 Rooms lists

Rooms list: sort by current members

• Sort rooms by current members.