Teaching Game 67/Moves 21 Thru 30

Sub-page of TeachingGame67

This is a Teaching Game so please add generous comments. Anyone can a question or kibitz. It makes for a good learning experience (and nice reading material for others). Hopefully we see some dan level player with their kibitzes here as well

Latest move marked  
Captured stones and komi  

JoeSeki I hope a high Dan player will make some comments about our direction of play when it's appropriate. I'd hate to think this is a case of "The blind leading the blind"

dnerra: Hmm, I am not sure about the result after Black enters at the square-marked stone instead of Black 29. If White presses with the usual knight's jump, and Black chooses the usual joseki, we have a white wall facing black thickness. But White is first to get an extension, so this favors White a little.

On the other hand, Black is really thick, while the white wall does have some weaknesses, so this is a plus for Black. Then there is the right side. Black is in danger of getting pressed further, which is probably bad in relation to his shimari in the upper side. So White will get sente at the top, or get compensation on the right side. It looks playable for both. Someone else to comment? (Yes I know, I should add a diagram here, maybe I can do that tomorrow.)

JamesA: Really interesting game! Black 29 is a difficult move to decide upon. How about playing 1 below, to extend from the top right shimari. Then, if White makes a shimari in the bottom right Black gets a fantastic move at m - preventing White's extension and also creating a double wing enclosure.

Alternative for B29  

However, looking at this position I think Black may have a difficult game (White has sente), so 3-3 may be the way to go (Black gets territory and White's thickness isn't too valuable because of Black's opposing thickness). The problem is that White has quite a bit of territory already and his stone on 5-3 in the bottom right makes it difficult for Black to get compensation with his thickness. I'm worried about the territorial balance for Black after White 28.

After the actual Black 29 and the following joseki it is very hard to find a good move for Black 35.

Moves 21-30  

JoeSeki White 30: nothing else even looks good. I'll take the profit. I think if I had Black I would have played at the 3-3 point and taken the profit away from White. Any outside influence White gets won't be that beneficial, I think.

DJ Black 29: Ouff!!! I agonised a lot over this move...
I considered all left big points left (oba) at j, k, m: I had really a hard time making my mind up. For some reason I thought the left side uninteresting, and that it was no good entering at x (White 30) just to be pressed at 29 (but maybe I am wrong in thinking this??!?).
So this is my move%%% If I'll have time I'll create a page to explain in detail my reasoning for the lurkers' sake...

Bill: I think that B9 at B10 would make better use of Black's thickness in the lower left corner. (The 3-3 has problems with the ladder toward the top left corner.)

DJ: Well, thanks for the comment! It's incredible how on SL things long forgotten all of a sudden pop again to life! This teaching game was a very good experience for me and I wonder where is JoeSeki gone...
Pity it seems we do not get to play much anymore on SL... Shall we start yet another rengo??!? ;-)

JoeSeki White 28: I choose the small enclosure on the top side. I decide that with the forcing move of Black at a, White b, that would be a Black-influenced area. So I return the headache to you. :)

AvatarDJFlux: If we're giving each other a headache it means that the game is difficult for both: excellent! Leaving jokes aside, I perceive this fuseki as really challenging. A difficult fuseki is for me one of the most beautiful elements of go.
Now it's my turn to ponder. I will try to play moves that flow naturally. At least, that's my intention...


JoeSeki I considered this sequence thinking my stone in the lower right corner being on the 3-5 point might have a good relationship with my stones crawling out. Not only would I get out into the middle but I don't think the thickness you get wouldn't be worthwhile. But after thinking about it a bit longer I decided I'd rather not strengthen you this way on the lower side. If you want to stop me from getting out into the middle you'll have to take gote again anyway. So I believe (probably incorrectly ;) that the middle will be unimportant in this game, so by not giving you more thickness by forcing my way out with crude moves, I should be able to handle the lower side better. Thus, you were very insightful to play for me as you did. It is as I would have played. Thank you.

unkx80: Don't mind if I ask, why is there two move number 4s in your diagram?
DJ: Whoa! Two moves in a row!! That's not fair!!! :-)))
JoeSeki Whoops poor editing my part. I fixed the diagram so it makes sense. Now our comments here won't though.

I am back from Holiday and had a great time. I went to a gaming convention, and bought some new games to play with friends. Taught someone how to play go, and hopefully hooked them on it :) I had no time to think about my next move though. I was thinking about the sequence below and hadn't gotten around to the move I should make once I had sente.

Hmm, where is the important point to play? The top is 12 lines of separation between a black group on the fifth line and a white stone on the fourth line. Wide and tall. The right is 11 lines between a black stone on the third line and a white stone on the fifth line. The left side is between a white stone on the third line, and something seven spaces away. But I don't know what that will be in the middle game. Is that blackness down there or whiteness? Trying to fight my way out would make it blackness.

I think the top is the biggest area. But what kind of shimari? Fourth line? I don't think so, A high stone is not called for here I believe. So third line. [Small|[3453 enclosure]) or large knight's shimari? Small allows me to extend a nice two spaces should you extend along the top. But then again the right side seems bigger then the top after my shimari. So a large knight allows me to extend two spaces along the top even further, making any extension by on the top awkward.

On the other hand, if I start to enclose both of my corners you get a double wing formation working for you. That can't be good. Tough, very tough. Or is that wrong thinking? I'd have three corners and could cap both extensions (or invade under them if on the fourth line). I should be able to reduce such a double wing formation. Right? I think this is a turning point for White. I'll get you a move by tomorrow. I hope my rambling wasn't too incoherent.

DJ: If I managed to give my opponent a headache for choosing his next move at least my strategy has accomplished something... :-)))

DJ White 26 and Black 27: I dare to assume that I can play for you again. White 26 is pretty straightforward: in this way you can immediately use your sente, which without doubt you have proficiently studied during your holiday... ;-)))
(If you do not agree with my guess of course you can edit it!!!)

DJ Black 25: Yes, the drawback of this variation is that you will have sente. On the other hand, I didn't want to choose a fighting variation because of those low white stones...
As far as I know, this is the only way of having a reasonable outcome in this game once you started the Nadare.
Who knows, if this kind of strategy is no good, maybe my Black 7 at d5 was questionable in the first place...
P.S. I was forgetting: have a great 4th of July! (also to all you USA citizens out there!)

JoeSeki I think you chose wisely here. I was inviting the fight by taking the avalance joseki. My stones are poised wonderfully for a fight. Which is why I said earlier that if you were going to avoid a fight, you should have avoided the large avalanche all together and played Black 13 at 18.

JoeSeki White 24: At least I end with sente, I think I'll spend some time thinking about what I'll do with it. I'm away for the July 4th weekend.

DJ White 22 and Black 23: As per instructions of my opponent ... ;-)

DJ Black 21: A simple, easy to understand joseki move! ;-)

Teaching Game 67/Moves 21 Thru 30 last edited by ProtoDeuteric on February 20, 2005 - 19:20
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