Teaching Game 67/Moves 11 Thru 20

Sub-page of TeachingGame67

This is a Teaching Game so please add genereous comments. Anyone can a question or kibitz. It makes for a good learning experience (and nice reading material for others). Hopefully we see some dan level player with their kibitzes here as well

Latest move marked  
Captured stones and komi  

Moves 11-20  

JoeSeki W20: No choice here, as anything else is just too good for Black. If you atari at F3, go ahead and fill for me and play your next move.

DJ B19: Well, yes, I think so!

JoeSeki W18: Is it a one-way street now?

DJ B17: Gotcha! Here we go...
I really wonder if my so-called strategy is sound or not... :-)

JoeSeki W16: Must be turning to the outside then.

DJ B15: In fact, I'm not planning to have a fight! ;-)
I maybe be wrong, but I devised a line of play to contrast your stones in the adjacent corners: at the end some stronger player will tell me whether such play is correct...
By now you should have guessed which way I'll turn%%% By the way, if I played C7 you would have made too good a shape on the left side (which was your plan in the beginning...) so I didn't want to co-operate!!!

JoeSeki W14: Did you consider C7 for B13? With White having both corners low and ready for a fight, it doesn't seem like you should be looking for a fight here. C7 is probably better than going with the avalanche variation. Now the next three moves I think are a one-way street. The question for me is, do you turn in or out?

DJ B13: I think that both the small and the large avalanche have so many variations that can develop toward almost anything and any direction... Let's try to steer the joseki in the direction we think positive for our goals - whether or not we have a clear goal in mind! ;-)
So: LargeAvalanche! So be it! (And may the force be with you...)

JoeSeki W12: I've never seen anything else but this. [1] As for Black 11 the small avalanche emphasizes the lower side, the large avalance takes territory and builds the left side. Of course I could be all wrong, these variations are a bit over my head to evaluate, let alone decide if the direction of play is correct.

DJ B11: No, I do not think there are any other possible moves but the white marked stone.
The real mess starts now... I choose the O-nadare! (my God, what have we got ourselves into...)

JoeSeki W10 (previous diagram): I've never seen any other move than this in this position. Are there any other moves possible?


[1] unkx80: Alternative and much simpler play for White. I believe this is joseki too?

JoeSeki But then White has eight spaces between this group of stones and a third line stone in the lower right. That seems way too wide. With Black going next I'd say this is not the right direction of play to consider.

AvatarDJFlux: Hmmm... maybe, I do not know joseki very well.
Still, it is White who has started the avalanche, and therefore the mess! So why should he back off from difficulties? Wouldn't it be inconsistent?
Ishida Yoshio agrees with me on this matter... ;-)))

Teaching Game 67/Moves 11 Thru 20 last edited by ProtoDeuteric on February 20, 2005 - 19:19
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