Teaching Game 67/Path Not Taken

Sub-page of TeachingGame67

This is a Teaching Game so please add generous comments. Anyone can add a question or kibitz. It makes for a good learning experience (and nice reading material for others). Hopefully we see some dan level player with their kibitzes here as well

Latest move marked  
Captured stones and komi  
Moves 61-70  

DJ: Fine%%% I know I have those threats, but you also have some internal ko threats around j and at k, and, for what I understand, the follow-up of a, b and c is not very good for my lower left group.
Let's discuss it on the appropriate page - at present I have no time either!

JoeSeki Let's do back-up, and comment this area well. You have much better ko threats than this one. Consider a-d. I'll take the time to document this on a separate page and back us up later. I don't have the time right now.

DJ Black 61: My idea to go back a little still stands. But now that you see how small my ko threat is (the best I can come up with at this moment...) maybe you'll think twice about resigning... ;-)))
I've spent three days showing and teaching go from 10:00 to 23:00 at a fair, and I also found time to study the situation. I do not really expect to win the ko, so I have to make do with gaining something from my threats.
I have to strengthen my group in the lower left, so my threats have to be there. I think it is premature to play something directly against the white stones in the nadare, so some preparation is called for. Still, maybe this is not as big as the life of the white group on the lower side... on the other hand, I think that I have only two threats big as the life of your group
If I'll have time I'll create a page with my ruminations... :-)

Threatening to capture the lower left is bigger than the life of my stones. Building strength for the lower left while threatening to kill it is probably best.

Moves 51-60 (W60 at W54)  

JoeSeki The more I study how many ko threats there are on this board for Black and how big this ko is. I think we can safely say the game is resignable. Misreading this position is huge

JoeSeki Ouch that does hurt :)

DJ Black 59: Well, yes, it is. But you get to make the first ko capture, so you just have to ignore my ko threat... ;-)

JoeSeki White 58 I don't know how to gauge the merits of fighting this ko. My guts say it's flower-viewing for Black.

DJ Black 57: Mmmhh... I didn't notice that by starting with White 56 there (at S8) instead of 8 (as I expected) you get to capture first the ko. Ah, well... What to do...

JoeSeki White 56 I see no alternatives.

AvatarDJFlux; OK then, I'll go on with the ko.
It is certainly true that White 52 is huge (but if my analysis is correct, you'll have to exchange a for b, and this should help me to reduce a bit your territory in the lower right), and that if I want to end the ko you'll get a free move or moves - by the way, when you say that two moves are needed to end the ko, do you mean the move that takes the ko plus the one to connect it?
Still I'd get most of the right side plus quite a bit of the upper side, plus influence... I don't know how to quantify this, I'm not a furikawari expert... ;-)
Probably the fate of my lower left group will become an important issue.

JoeSeki: I appreciate the offer and I agree with the philosophy of backing up and correcting problems that are huge mistakes.

In this case though, even though I misread it. I'm not sure if it's a huge mistake. Here is my reasoning for saying that. If Black plays it out, then White gets a ko. While it is flower-viewing for Black, it's not awful for White yet. White has already played White 52, which is very big. Before Black can kill White on the side, he must play two moves to finish the ko fight.

That's two moves in a row to kill the white group. If you give me two moves like White 52, I think I made the better choice of moving at this time. Question: Are the big moves on the board still bigger then the life and death of the white group on the right-hand side? I don't know the answer. But I do know that the looming ko fight will be a burden for White. Isn't there a proverb? "If the group is worth less than 15 points consider sacrificing it"?

So at this time I say play on. And the lesson at this point will be about is it wise to give up a group this big to play big points, or is JoeSeki being foolish :)

DJ: Phheeeww... ;-)
Before I go ahead with the ko (which is a bit of a hanami ko for me, I think), I make you a proposal: this being a teaching game, and a fine (for our level) one so far, we could go back a little, say you use White 52 to defend; and then we could create a page with this real-life tsumego problem for the edification of our weaker kyu kibitzers. What do you think?

I went ahead and created the page anyway. Joe and all the others, please correct and edit abundantly!

But if you'd like to fight the ko, I'll be glad to fight too! ;-)

JoeSeki: I think I did misread it, The seki I thought I found is death. I guess this is a ko after all. It is I that must study more tsumego :)

JoeSeki White54: Unless I misread, this is the road to a seki, or life.

AvatarDJFlux Black 53: There I am, misreading tsumego... Seki??!? I didn't find any seki! The only seki I could find was forestalled by the move I chose for Black 51. This is how I lose my games...
But I want to be consistent and trustful to myself (euphemism for "I'm stubborn"). I play at your vital point.
I would be happy if you prove me wrong: you would have shown me where I have to work even harder to understand anything about this game.
If I'm wrong my lower left group has to find something to face your attack: hopefully if you really have a seki it should be a gote one...
By the way, I too perceive the lower side as the most important right now.

JoeSeki White 52: I think I'm alive. If I read it out properly the worst that can happen is seki. So assuming that is correct I had a hard time figuring out where to play. This move takes territory for either of us, and I think it makes your black stones on the lower side unstable (I can force you to one eye with an unreasonable fight :). You've got a big moyo on the top side developing, but it's open at the bottom and two moves away from perfection. And there are the black stone on the left side which look suspiciously weak, right? I suspect the proper direction of play is on the left side. So, question for a strong dan player. Assuming the white stones on the right are alive, where is the direction of play and why?

AvatarDJFlux Black 51: Look, I think this move should be sente against your group on the left side, unless you want to be faced with a serious ko there (with a hypnotic tone of voice: I order you to believe meee...).
I pondered for a long time whether to attack you directly at the vital point, but this is a more solid way of playing (it leaves you fewer ko threats).

Moves 41-50  
Moves 51-60 (W60 at W54)  

bud1027 hm..this is the way to kill the white stones...

Moves 51-60 (W60 at W54)  

bud1027 another picture.

Teaching Game 67/Path Not Taken last edited by ProtoDeuteric on July 18, 2006 - 06:25
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