3-4 point high approach, two-space high pincer, ogeima

  Difficulty: Expert   Keywords: Joseki

Table of contents

3-4 point high approach, two-space high pincer, ogeima, thrust 3-4 point high approach, two-space high pincer, ogeima 3-4 point high approach, two-space high pincer, ogeima, Kajiwara's variation

The large knight's move[2] W1 here was invented by Fujisawa Kuranosuke. The most common continuation is at a, which will be further discussed on this page. There is also

Main line

Main line  

B6 here is now almost always played: the alternative variation diagrams for a and b are nowadays considered to be inferior. The continuation with W7 at a gives Black too much in the way of outside influence (see below).

There is also Cho Chikun's variation where White plays W5 at c and Hashimoto Shoji's variation where Black plays B4 at W5.

Main line (continued)  

The normal moves are as shown here, completing the joseki. For a while the relative timing of the W7/B8 and W9/B10 exchanges was considered a critical issue[1], but (it seems) no longer. B8 at a is a variant which is stronger in the corner. The exchange of W9 for B10 is a loss for White, as it greatly weakens the aji of his solitary stone, but it means that W11 indirectly covers the cutting point at b. B12 is of course not played if Black already has a stone in the area.



W11 in the previous line can here instead, provided the ladder works for White. The first time it appeared (perhaps) was in a game between Miyazawa Goro and Ishikura Noboru. Can the latter therefore be considered to have invented the variation ?

Variation (continued)  

There are two issues in this joseki:

  • Will Black be able to make up for the local loss by playing effective ladder breakers for the ladder at a (which obviously works for White, or else she wouldn't play W11 in the previous diagram)?
  • Will Black be able to close off with b and cooperate well with the upper left ?

kokiri: also played by Nie weiping and discussed in his (unfairly criticised IMO) Nie Weiping On Go but in that example he used it to build a (black) position down the side.

Modern variant

Modern variant  

W5 is a modern variant of the joseki, known as Cho Chikun's variation


This is the continuation.


Noseki 1: Vulgar  

W1 here is considered vulgar. White seems to end in sente, but if she takes it, Black can play Black a-White b-Black c-White d in sente, completely enclosing White in the corner, The result is considered better for Black.

Uberdude Whilst the thickness is better for black on an empty board, this variation should not be dismissed completely. If the whole board position means the thickness is of little use, this is quite playable for white who gets a lot of territory. This point was made in a book I read recently (unfortunately I can't remember what). The position in the book was not particularly strange, just white had a strong group on the outside that meant the thickness was not interesting for black.

Noseki 2: wrong cut  

The cut at W2 is not good for White. If the ladder works for Black, he can cut at a to annihilate White. If not, he crosses under at b to give the following result.

Noseki 2: continuation  

This result is comparable to the one in Hashimoto Shoji's variation but it is worse. White's influence is diminished by the gaps at a and b.

The timing issue


Critical line?  

This is a possible critical line for the supposed timing issue. W1 before W3 is natural, simply because W3 is locally a bad play, weakening the marked white stone (it is only played at all to strengthen White's cutting point). The question is, what if Black now plays B4 to cut, the shape to the right having been fixed by W1/B2?

This position has occurred in a game, Cao Dayuan vs. Sakata Eio 1987-04-27.

One critical line  

After these plays and White a, Black b, White c, White has died inside and has much influence outside.

Another critical line?  

Another possible critical line occurs when White pushes in the centre first, as here; and Black makes the bamboo joint B2 to thwart White's later play in the corner (now if White a, Black b and White has less eye shape). That invites W3 and induces the cut B4.

This was played in a Korean game (Seo Neung-uk vs. Cheong Su-hyeon 1990-12-07); variations are given in Jungsuk in Our Time.

Another recent line

Another line (in recent pro games)  
Another line II  

See also

[2] Herman: I've never heard the term taisha used for this move anywhere, and can find no reference anywhere that this is correct. The term "taisha" does not even appear on our own Go terms page. Other online terminology dictionaries do not support this usage either:

The way it is currently linked leads straight to a page about the taisha joseki, and like this it makes no sense at all to link it. Although the literal meaning of "great slant" may apply in this position (though it is not the same move as used in the taisha joseki), I think we should go with either ogeima, or large knight's-move, using taisha here can only lead to confusion.

Bill: I have no problem with using English here. :) Here on the SL page Ways to avoid the taisha, in a footnote (currently 99), I pointed out in 2003 that the taisha move had already been made, so it was too late to avoid the taisha. ;) The quickest reference I have is the Suzuki-Kitani Small Joseki Dictionary, vol. 2. On p. 203 this move is referred to as taisha kake, also on p. 257 in the 5-4 joseki. If we are going to use Japanese, taisha is correct. Now I suppose that taisha is a kind of ogeima, so ogeima is not exactly wrong. . . . My preference is to use English.

Herman: Ok, I agree, and have changed it to English. I did not question the Japanese meaning so much as its western usage. I think most English users are unaware of the literal meaning of Taisha, and would automatically assume that it refers to the joseki. (which could lead to confusion).

3-4 point high approach, two-space high pincer, ogeima last edited by Timm on June 20, 2014 - 00:35
RecentChanges · StartingPoints · About
Edit page ·Search · Related · Page info · Latest diff
[Welcome to Sensei's Library!]
Search position
Page history
Latest page diff
Partner sites:
Go Teaching Ladder
Login / Prefs
Sensei's Library