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Funny Things

Someone wrote: Oriental should not be used for people. Oriental essentially means Eastern as Occidental means Western. At best the term is Eurocentric - defining folks not by who they are, but by where they come from in relation to Europe. I am not a big pc person, but this seems grammatically, if not intentionally, compelling.

Based upon this statement, we are lead to the following:

  • Oriental means Eastern in relation to Europe.
  • Occidental means Western in relation to Europe.
  • So Americans are Occidentals.
  • Europeans are not Occidentals.
  • Perhaps Europeans are Medial.

George Caplan I am the "Someone" referenced above. Not sure what is so funny. We don't hear the term Occidental very often. Not sure what the center point is here - we reference Western Europe and Eastern Europe - never heard the term "Medial" Oriental appears in the Racial Slurs internet database and is referenced as being supplanted by "Asian" on Wikipedia. We don't call Americans Occidentals, nor do we call Europeans Medials or Occidentals - we call them Americans, or Europeans. Seems like it is reasonable to call Asians Asians.

Dont be silly! Of course Americans and even Europeans are referred to as Occidentals. Its not Euro-centric; its Urals-centric. From [ext] Merriam-Webster Main Entry: Occidental, Function: noun: a member of one of the occidental peoples; especially : a person of European ancestry See also: [ext] 1 [ext] 2 [ext] 3 [ext] 4 [ext] 5 [ext] 6 [ext] 7 or some portion of the 700+ books about Occidentals on [ext] Amazon. Beware Wikipedia...relying on it causes people to say silly things at times. Wikipedia is at its best regarding those matters upon which everyone agrees. On controversial matters, Wikipedia is subject to aberrations.

Bill: Sorry to butt in. I'll just make one comment. The Racial Slurs Database claims that oriental is a slur because it usually refers to inanimate objects. That's absurd, even if true. Just because we talk about French fries, French kisses, French twists, and French toast does not make French a slur when referring to a person.

George Caplan It is hardly worth mentioning that the French don't find the term French insulting. Similarly, Chinese do not find the term Chinese insulting, Japanese do not term the word Japanese insulting. Some/Many do find the term Oriental insulting. As I said in my original post, I am as anti pc as the next person - but I have some sympathy for this complaint.

Bill: Well, I said I was only going to make one comment. However, after reading the Wikipedia entry, I have another. It seems that the opposition to the word, oriental, as a racial slur, centers in the United States. The Chinese and Japanese, with possibly some exceptions, do not object to it. That makes perfect sense. If someone calls a woman born in San Francisco whose grandparents came from China an Oriental, that is not only inaccurate (She's occidental.), but likely to be a racial slur. Similarly, calling someone born in Omaha whose grandparents were German a European is probably a racial slur, as well. Context matters.

Dieter: An awfully long time ago, I met an American guy in Prague. Faithful to our age we started debating politics and came to the logic of our map's distribution. I said it was logical or at least understandable to put oneself in the centre, he said it was more logical to put America in the centre, because that way the vast continent of Eurasia was cut in half ... Anyway, he was so kind to send me a map made in Singapore, having Asia central, Europe left and America to the right.

In my opinion our society, influenced by some strong currents in the United States, is so busy avoiding offence, that we forget what kindness and justice are for. Recently the word "neger" was banned from the Dutch dictionary for being offensive. It reminded me of the rebellion against France in the 19th century. The French called the rebel army "des gueux" (peasants). "Geus" now still means "free thinker, rebel" in Dutch.

Group Book Order (200611)

Exchange rates between [ext] Yen and USD

Running this through [ext] Amazon comes out to be ¥ 26,400 plus ¥ 6,000 for International Economy shipping which takes 3-4 weeks. Internation Express shipping for this order costs ¥ 7,500 and takes 2-5 days. We are eight, so that less than ¥200 each for the faster shipping . Certainly seems worthwhile to me :)

(20061128 8:30AM EST) The order has been placed:
Shipping estimate for these items: 2006/12/21 - 2007/1/4
Delivery estimate: 2006/12/22 - 2007/1/8
Hopefully these dates are quite conservative and the items will arrive at my house for trans-shipment a good bit sooner than this estimate indicates.

(20061203 8:15AM EST) Order Date: 2006/11/28
Order #: 250-6103981-9434643
Items not yet shipped
Delivery estimate: 2006/12/22 - 2007/1/8

(20061218 10:00PM EST) The books have arrived at my house and been shipped out to all but one person.

(20061221 12:35PM EST) DrStraw, mdobbins, funkyj, and NannyOgg have received their shipments.
HKA and toast yet to receive their or report that it arrived.

(20061230) toast reports that his book has arrived.

jfc: thanks for doing this velobici! The books are great (jfc aka funkyj)!

Group Book Order (200802)

Ordering Nihon Ki-in Dan Level from Amazon Japan. List price is Y740 per volume for each of 14 volumes:

* LP Jent: complete set. 14 books. About $100 + $43 shipping.
* Imagist: complete set: 14 books. About $100 + $43 shipping.
* DrStraw: complete set. 14 books. About $100 + $43 shipping.
* GoCat: complete set. 14 books. About $100 + $43 shipping.
* malweth: 1 dan volumes. 3 books. About $21 + $9 shipping.
* cuetzpalin: 1 dan and 3 dan volumes. 6 books. About $45 + $18 shipping.
* Ego: complete set. 14 books. About $100 + $43 shipping.
* lepore: complete set. 14 books. About $100 + $43 shipping.
* patrickb314:  1 dan and 3 dan volumes. 6 books. About $45 + $18 shipping.
* a@b: Practical Life and Death Training Drill,
       Hashimoto Utaro - Gokyo Shumyo,
       Go Reader for True 5 Dan Books - Get Strong in the Corner
* Velobici: complete set. 14 books. About $100 + $43 shipping.
7 sets of 6 and 7 dan
9 sets of 3 dan
10 sets of 1 dan
several miscellaneous books
* Ninito: complete set: 14 books. About $100 + $43 shipping. -- Never Paid.

(20080208:17:20) Order placed with
(20080215:14:00) The order has been split by into at least two shipments. There is no additional shipping charge. The first shipment arrived at on Friday 15 February 2008. It consisted of 6 copies of 七段合格の死活150題 (囲碁文庫), 7 copies of 七段合格の中盤戦 (囲碁文庫) and 7 copies of 七段合格の定石150題 (囲碁文庫).
(20080229) The order was split into three shipments. The box sent via FedEx? arrived in good condition. The two via DHL Express were so severely damaged that items from the shipment were lost: one book from one box and two books from the other. Upon being notified of this, Amazon Japan immediately offered to ship the missing books free of charge.
(20080306) The replacement books have arrived. Amazon Japan is wonderful. The first shipments went out today to malweth, patrickb314, cuetzpalin and a@b. [ext] USPS does not have media mail shipping outside the United States, so two orders went first class mail instead...about $11 as compared to $3...not a problem.
(20080310) All packages have been mailed to their owners as of 9:00AM this morning.
(20080311) malweth notified me that he has received his shipment.
(20080313) DrStraw notified me that he has received his shipment.
(20080314) patrickb314 notified me that he has received his shipment.
(20080317) lepore notified me that he has received his shipment.
(20080318) cuetzpalin notified me that he has received his shipment.
(20080318) GoCat notified me that he has received his shipment.
(20080319) a@b notified me that he has received his shipment.
(20080323) Imagist notified me that he has received his shipment.
(20080323) Still have not heard from Ego and LP Jent regarding their packages. Everyone else has reported that they received their books.
(20080331) Finally heard from LP Jent that he received the books he ordered. Ego is the only person from who has neither confirmed receiving the books nor contacted asking when they will arrive.


In RTG Problem 36 you mention that the problem comes from "a Korean book". Could you add the ISBN number and the name of the book to that page? Thank you. Velobici

tderz: How did you find it during my editing?

I always kept it on minor changes I thought.

It got two: ISBN 89-7186-580-6 ISBN 89-7186-007-3

BTW, good projects on the Asian language Go Terms, I would like to make a general clean-up, or one-in-all document (EN-JP-CN-KR) perhaps as excle sheet which you could put in an order you like, but miss the time for it.

nachtrabe: Something like [ext] this? I'd like to add Chinese terms to it, but haven't had the time (yet).

tderz Whow! Thanks Nachtrabe! This is an incredible table.
I was looking for something like this.
In the next 4 days I might have some time in the evening: Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday (20-24 May 2005)
With Chinese you just mean the characters, in case they differ from Japanese,
or do you also want to have pinyin added?
I just ask, because I am afraid the list the might become unhandy, big.
Perhaps fiddling with the fond size might work,
but most of the space is lost by blanks in more columns.

nachtrabe: I was thinking of adding the language, not just the characters. Right now I am debating whether I want it all in the same document, using separate documents, or if I want to rotate the page to accommodate the extra language. I'm not really sure yet, though ideas are welcome.

tderz: when I print the PDF, the/some English letters are shoven into each other, others are completely missing (ff in difficulty, 6th line). I am not a PDF expert, do you - as author - have to add the font (which is on your computer, but perhaps not on mine?) into the PDF?

nachtrabe: Hmmm, can you give me more details about your system config? (post on my homepage here on SL so we can avoid cluttering Velobici's blog). I have a suspicion as to why the display is strange, but I need more information to confirm it.

tderz] Nachtrabe, it worked fine at home (and I don't know the other settings).

Velobici: The PDF table is wonderful. A great tool for understanding the go terms of various languages. Unfortunately, I cant cut and paste from the table into Sensei's Library. So I would have to look up the characters in some web directory to obtain the &#xxxxx; HTML codes that are needed here. :(

nachtrabe: Hope you find it useful and let me know if you see any corrections/additions. You might try [ext] to look up the HTML codes.

That's pretty cool. I can cut 手 from a web site paste it in and get the code &#25163 ;. Unfortunately, AcroRead? does not let me CUT from PDF. So I cant use the tool :(

All right, let's do this the old fashion way ^.^ See if you can get anything out of [ext] the XeLaTeX file (it may take a few minutes to show up, since I am waiting for my system to sync). Not as pretty, but assuming you have a korean font installed you should be able to copy from it.

Sensei's Library 'Projects'

  1. Chinese, Japanese and Korean Go Terms
  • 20050605 finished all the Japanese Go Terms as of version 229 (October 28, 2005 - 00:01)
  • 20050919 finished all the Chinese Go Terms as of version 167 (November 11, 2005 - 09:13)
    • Add Chinese/Japanese/Korean boxes to each go term page
    • Convert the pages using non-English names to English names when the English is reasonably well known. (SL is an English web site, rather than a Japanese-English site)
    • Maintain the other language pages as aliases to the English page
    • Make all the referring pages use the "content page" rather than the alias.
  1. Gokyo Shumyo

Began a WME of the Kanazawa Tesuji Series. These problems are part of Gokyo Shumyo. After WME of all the existing pages, the plan is to add the problems that are currently missing and complete the book. The answers are to be developed by the "staff" of Sensei's Library. The text World Weiqi Masterpieces of Life and Death is the reference being used for this work.

Some Terms in Asian Languages

Chinese: 布局 (b�j�)
Japanese: 布石 (fuseki)
Japanese: 序盤 (joban)
Korean: 포석 (p�osŏk = poseok)

unkx80: 貼目 is komi. I think 让子 and 授子 are the same, i.e. both mean handicap.

Question: In Chinese go terms, I found the following:
悔棋 hui3 qi2 - take back.
Is this correct, take back as in retracting a move, or does it mean take back as in Sending Three Returning One?

unkx80: It is retracting a move. FYI, 悔, as in 后悔, means regret. You may want to see 悔棋 as regretting playing a move, and proceeds to to retract it.

Question: All of these 缓 (huan3); 缓慢 (huan3 man4); 缓手 (huan3 shou3); 慢 (man4) are listed as slow. Do they have different connotations? Are the four really the same?

unkx80: In the content of Go, all are more or less the same. 慢 may be slightly negative compared to 缓 though, but not much.

Question: What is the Chinese for slide? Its seems to be missing. ;(Japanese: すべり (suberi)

unkx80: I don't think it is given a special name. Instead, it is usually referred to as 飞 (fei1, knight's move).

Velobici/Archive last edited by velobici on March 31, 2008 - 23:53
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