Coffee Machine


Taking a break? Go ahead and add what's on your mind right now. Alternatively, take a look at some go humour, fun go facts, or great quotes.

N.B. (PJTraill: have just added this, but is it right:) If continuing a thread, add your remarks to the end, even if in a previous month. If starting a new thread, add it at the end of the current month; if that month is not yet present add it at the top of the page.

Motto for today:

"Kosumi is not a move" -Pierre Colmez, 6d

(You may change the motto of the day, but please save the old motto in Old Mottos.)

September 2018

PJTraill (2018-09-02): I have recently noticed several edits such as [ext] which mainly just add Ď%%%%í after loads of diagrams to force the following text below rather than to the right of the diagram. Sometimes this is desirable, as the text has little or nothing more to do with the diagram, but in cases such as the edit above that is not so (though it does also add useful content). If anything, I have the impression that the intent is to make the article fit onto a narrow (e.g. mobile phone) screen, as the text is indeed a commentary on the diagram. While I can see that is helpful on a mobile, I find it a shame on a larger screen. While the ideal situation would be (as on Wikipedia) pages that adapt to the userís device, I do not think we have the resources for that. What does anyone feel?

PJTraill (2018-09-02): I agree that the material around The Art of 9x9 Go should really be tolerated as sub-pages of the author (Monteo), but I see that even the authorís page has been blanked; whether by the author themself in a fit of modesty I cannot tell. I fear that SL lacks the tools to deal with this sort of problem, and after looking at the stuff I do not care much either.

May 2018

PJTraill: I see a bunch of edits by blanking The Art of 9x9 Go, a reference to it and Art of 9x9 ó do we care?

PJTraill: I have added an instruction (with caveat) at the top for where to post, but is it right?

VanMorrison? - Given the hubris of ArtOfGo? I don't care.

tapir: It is a wiki. You can just revert. For an ebook I find it surprising that no way for purchase or download was ever mentioned, none of the postimg images shows as well. Or as the author writes: "My ebook, The Art of 9x9 Go: How to Beat Dan Players at GoQuest, will be the best 9x9 ebook by 2027, and helps some kyu players breakthrough to shodan." - Polite way would be to move the whole thing to a subpage of the author, but as it has subpages as well that won't do.

tapir: I revived for now. This should be a subpage or deleted imo, but not by blanking the page and leaving the subpages in the limbo. Opinions welcome. See also: Page Delete Requests

April 2018

bugcat: The site, which hosts some of our images such as the one on Karigane Junichi's page, has been down for a few days. It is looking increasingly likely that as a website, it is gone for good. So I wanted to provide a place for discussion over how to replace the affected images, what images need replacing, and whether or not in the future we should host important images actually on the SL server.

Affected images:

In Karigane Junichi: "Tamura, Shuei, Karigane", [ext]
In Honinbo Shuei: "Honinbo Shuei (本因坊秀栄)", [ext]
In Jowa: "Honinbo Jowa (本因坊丈和)", [ext]
In Go Seigen: "Go Seigen (吳清源)", [ext]
In Kitani Minoru: "Kitani Minoru (木谷実)", [ext]

Other affected pages include Maeda Nobuaki, Hashimoto Utaro, and Sekiyama Riichi.

... Are in fact ALL of our major images hosted on postimg?

PJTraill: While, being fairly new here, I would not know what is hosted where, I was wondering whether we might do well to use WikiMedia Commons, e.g. Go Seigen at [ext] I see that there is no image in [ext] the English article on Honinbo Shusai, but there is a (less than ideal) one in [ext] the Japanese article. Having looked, my impression is that there are currently not that many good images available on WikiMedia. It is perhaps conceivable that we might be able to improve WikiMedia, but perhaps it is risky to use images outside our control. Any thoughts?

Herman: All images on SL are hosted on a variety of outside services. That has risks, as the disappearance of postimg shows. Ideally, it would be great if SL had its own file/image hosting, but that would add a large bandwidth cost to hosting it, as well as issues w.r.t. copyright and abuse. If we allow anyone to upload, which would be consistent with the spirit of a wiki, then you need to police the uploads constantly to avoid copyright infringement and to remove uploads unrelated to go. Wikimedia is a good source, as it is a large project which probably isn't going anywhere for a while, and because it already keeps track of copyright for images.

tapir: A good chunk of images are (current and legacy) player portraits. For them the best practice would imo be to write the major Go associations a polite letter, whether they are fine with their player portraits inlined here. A bit late ... and of course that means removing portraits when the answer is no.

bugcat: To PJTraill: I don't think that WikiMedia permits other sites to leech their images (that is, to display them on another website via link to WikiMedia.) In fact, I tried to use that very image of Go Seigen on the relevant page and it didn't show up.

PS. Could you sign your post please? PJTraill: Done, sorry! (Also corrected your spelling of my name!)

To tapir: I think perhaps that would be foolhardy if we can leech the images from their sites without forcing ourselves to ask permission, as we do with the Nihon Kiin for example. Better not to ask to be allowed if we don't have to.

Also: I've just realised that we can find at least some of the old images on archived pages of SL that are hosted on the Internet Archive?. For instance, I just found our old image of Jowa: Perhaps this would be the best source of replacement images, to use the archived versions of the old ones.

PJTraill: If we cannot use the images stored in WikiMedia (which I have made an alias of Wikipedia, where I have added information), then it is a bit pointless; I wondered about copying from there if their terms permit it, but that does not solve much.

Bass: Stack Exchange hosts their users' images on [ext] Imgur. Imgur's policy is "The Imgur API is free for non-commercial usage. Your application is probably free if you don't plan on making any money with it, or if it's open source." Maybe we should integrate Imgur image uploading to the wiki?

PJTraill: Sounds promising!

tapir: Well, removing them (leeched player pics) if request is unanswered or answered w/ no is at least unambiguous, but of course I never felt entitled to write a letter on behalf of SL. Regardless of how we end up handling individual cases, we should have some way of keeping track of problems. E.g. currently plenty of photobucket images. I once added a page Image Workshop? to do so, but it got 0 traction so I abandoned (and deleted) it after a while.

Old coffee

Coffee Machine last edited by VanMorrison on September 27, 2018 - 13:53
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