Coffee Machine / Old Coffee 2010 - 2011

Same shape, different preferences  

Tapir: See the pressing move above. Regardless of whether there is a black stone at a to f the main ideas of and the different black answers are remaining the same. The usual presentation would now give only the main variation six times (+ 1 for tenuki), that the whole thing is one main theme, with different preferences according to outside stones, different choices, follow ups is totally lost to the reader. Joseki dictionaries suffer from the same problem, the are ordered by move, with a different chapter for each pincer, the theme of the pressing move and the attachment at is nowhere explored in depth. Can we find a better way for SL?

Bad white shape  

Not very pleaseful situation for white, yeah? Black takes left side and may take the corner or divide white.

fractic: That's mostly because is an overplay it should probably be at instead.

Good shape  

You need to shortage libertis of B before go W.

iseijin: Where does the name 'star point' or 'hoshi' come from? What's its origin?

I am wondering...  

John F. 3 still dominates, both over all that time and in recent play. In 26 games since 2009 inclusive, 3 appeared 21 times, J17 3 thrice and Q18 twice. It is virtually a joseki then for Black to play M17, White F15.It is then relatively rare for either side to get much territory in this area, but every now and then White strikes lucky.

tapir Thank you, never thought you would answer when asking for a GoGoD owner. The trouble is: one of our high dan players commented is a short term fashion in 2002 and common only with White backup along the edge, as a sort of kobayashi-like formation. Now it turns out the opposite is true. The other problem is, I don't really grasp the idea of this . Is it really playing lightly as if invading a framework, setting up a miai between strengthening the - formation or extending along the edge with e.g. a, all the while the slower extension would suffer from a checking extension with Black able to build ideally from his enclosure? Anyway, is the kind of move I somehow can't even consider during a game. (3-4 point distant low approach)

John F. I initially found the high move an astounding and unexpected concept - almost a misplay. However, if you view it (or rather the giraffe's neck shape) in light of what I've said about Go Seigen groups and Chernobyl areas (see Go Companion or New In Go), it doesn't look quite so outlandish.

I notice I also omitted a word above and have now restored it (over all time >> over all that time). I meant over the period since the first edit you refer to. Over all time it is slightly in favour of J17 (rather than 3) but a turning point came about 2000. It may be connected with the discovery of the giraffe's neck. Our first pro example is from 2000, by Hikosaka Naoto (we have an example from top amateurs in 1986). Since then, there has not been just a tilt in favour of 3, but a landslide. A key question appears to be whether Black should play M17 immediately and allow the giraffe/Go Seigen group. It seems he wants to try to avoid it - the GSG group is too good - but if he doesn't, he runs the risk of not getting it in at all, and then White can get a superb shape on the side.

Dave I see a little broader context to this. The giraffe's neck emerged in the early 80's as part of the Kobayashi fuseki (see Takemiya-Sugiuchi in the 29th NHK, 1982 for what I think is GoGoD's earliest example). A standard sequence is shown below, although there are many examples of alternatives. The point is that with the upper right a star point, White is aiming to invade at a next (it is indeed the most common continuation in the upper right - Black will not typically use a play to defend such a position). In contrast, in the situation above with a shimari there is no such nice invasion. There White's natural follow up is to cap at b and give Black a low position overall. In the early going, White played there immediately, however, the results were not so good. White is thin. Finally White settled on the giraffe's face with the play at c.

Kobayashi - Star Point in the Upper Right  

With all this we should keep in mind that, with the shimari in the upper right, the low distant approach has not displaced the high approach to the 3-4 stone. This is very different than the situation with the Kobayashi. What might be considered standard play is as shown below...

Tapir: Thanks, I added sth to my reading and replaying list. For me it was not about the standard approach (below), but about the distant approach which is after all still played. After the distant approach, kosumi (with a Black strength e.g. enclosure behind) - we don't have coverage for the standard white answer on SL at all, but only as two-space extension (which is decidedly unpopular today as opposed to the "giraffe jump"). In the Kobayashi fuseki it is the other way round, professionals usually play the two-space extension not the "giraffe jump" (according to my database and in disagreement to Dave).

MasterGo has a game from May 1958 with Kajiwara Takeo (vs. Fujisawa Hideyuki) building the giraffe shape (with Black approaching afterwards) in a situation with Black enclosure (as first occasion).

The Modern "Standard" Approach  

Hyperpapeterie: How often is it that top amateurs anticipate professionals in this way? Harada Minoru may have experimented with the High Chinese, I seem to recall Go Seigen's brother playing some moves before Go Seigen used them, but maybe these are just isolated examples that have stuck because they're so rare. I sort of doubt that professionals would study top amateur games, so is it just coincidence?

2011 Feb

Reuven: Being mostly away from go for a while, I really got scared by the front page article of the weeks picture there for a moment... >_< Thank god my heart is ok... :)

2010 June

Tapir: 20k pages in SL and nobody did notice!

Dave: Maybe you, didn't :-), but... DaveSigaty/20000thPage

Tapir: ooooh, it was just me who missed it! any celebrations?

2010 May 4

I'm sure the WuRenGo3 teams would love to see some more players (especially captains) joining up.

2010 May 4

WuRenGo3 is getting started. The last game, WuRenGo2, was great fun and a fabulous learning experience. Feel free to come along and join a team. Let's try to get even more players than last time.

2010 April 12

JRedfor(KGS): I've been looking, off and on, for tournaments around my area. It seems like Arkansas repels go tournaments; pushing them to the coasts, up north, and down to Texas. I may try to run one... see if I get flung to Oregon or something. Would anyone be interested in an annual tournament in north-west Arkansas?