Amateur Fuseki 2

    Keywords: Opening
moves 1-10  

  • B7: Klaus: tenuki is always an option.

As I feel that W6 is not a severe attack, I will treat the upper right stone lightly, trying to build up a moyo of my own.

PurpleHaze: If you feel that B7 is the move here then you should have played B5 at B7. Just because W6 is bad does not mean it can be ignored.

Bill: W6 is not necessarily bad. And it certainly can be ignored. Black has prevented a White shimari with sente. He can regard B5 as kikashi and treat it lightly.

Perhaps best  

Leaving white with very bad aji around a.

Dieter: I do not agree at all with this. The question here is: can W4-W6 be cut ? If so, is there compensation for White ? If not, then we have reason to say this is not joseki.

Klaus:The pro's and con's of W6 vs b have already been discussed at 4-5 point 4-3 approach inside contact, follow-ups, W6 seems to be o.k.!

Dieter: Let's have a look at the 3-4 point, high approach, ogeima

upper left, discussion  

Klaus: Something else: Tenuki must be o.k. here, because even after W2, W4 and W6 black can still attach at B7 in order to ensure a small base. In my opinion, black is doing fine, as long as he can find valuable points on the rest of the board! This sure is a matter of taste, but maybe not a mistake.

  • W8: starline: I guess this is just an attempt to put some pressure on d15, but you will probably tell me it is wrong ,-).

What do you mean when you say "treat the upper right stone lightly, trying to build a moyo of my own"?

Klaus: Well I mean, I will pretend this stone can live on it's own, or it may be sacrificed. Light play means denying the opponent any worthy target. (see light)

In my opinion, d12 was a very good move !

starline: Could you explain some more the reasoning behind your last move? (B7) It looks strong for me, as it seems that any attempt I make to form territory on that side of the board (or even invasion) is going to be very hard for me now. Would that mean that g16 was a mistake, and I should have played on the right side of the board instead.

I am never sure when it is best to invade, or when I should be building, or the reasons why it is better to do one or the other (and under what circumstances).

Klaus: Well you could have played at a instead of W6. Another idea for W6 was attaching at b, play a usual joseki, end in sente AND then play at a. I would have tried that. Something about my right side: This is an attacking formation. As you rightly mentioned, any white group will find it hard to make a base here, without being confined to a corner. Black will later allow one white invading group to live or escape and try to cash in some points by chasing it. (See san-ren-sei)

  • W10: starline: My reasoning here is that I am strongest on the top left, so I should use this to attack the top right.

In real life I probably would have impulsively made a pincer move at c (especially in a real time game) I tend to have the mentality: 'if it moves, attack it!'

Klaus: A distant pincer might have been nice here, but I prefer d over c. Why? Well, black has a framework on the right, so I would want to make sure that white gets an access to the center here, but I am playing too high anyway...

starline: What do you mean when you say you are playing too high?

Klaus: I tend to prefer the 5the line over the third. I like Influence instead of points.

starline: I am ashamed to report that I have never studied any joseki. If that is the case, am I attempting to run before I can walk by trying to learn general fuseki strategy?

Klaus: There is a proverb which says: Studying joseki makes you 2 stones weaker.

In my opinion you are doing the right thing by starting with fuseki. You must know what you need in a corner globally, before getting too much involved in lokal sequences.

HolIgor: We are all different. I have not studied any fuseki yet. I've just begun to look at the ideas in the pro games I try to comment upon. I know some basic joseki and usually rely on my common sense in case of deviations. I believe I am better in tesuji and life and death, though there is a room for improvement there too. This does not mean that my fuseki is awful. Simply, I've never made any study there.

starline: I found this A Zen Way to Joseki to be very interesting reading.

unkx80: The positioning of W10 is a bit odd. Why not exert more pressure with e?

moves 11-20  

unkx80: I guess the move that really needs commenting is W6. I would like to ask, what is the purpose of W6, and where is the focal point when W6 is played.

Bill: W6 doesn't look so bad to me, as long as White does not make the exchange, W4 - B5, first.

starline: Maybe if earlier I'd played W4 at B5 then a move around W6 would have been more effective? Also, I played W6 because I thought that if black played around there, he would have too much stronghold in the lower and right side. Where would have been a better move for W6?

Amateur Fuseki 2 last edited by Dieter on July 5, 2008 - 14:42
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