3-4 point high approach low extension, whole board

    Keywords: Opening, Joseki
One space low extension  

Dieter: In the Belgian Championships final (round robin with 10) I played two games with the lower side constellation, both times I played B2 to frustrate White's influence. For B4 I played each hane a and b once.

Velobici: Dieter, which year ? 2006 ?

White is tricked, Black outside hane  

In this game (which I unfortunately lost) White played a variation which is not considered joseki. In particular, with the black+circle stone present AND the killer move of a waiting for Black having enough liberties at the outside, White's cutting stones end up very weak.

Trickplay seems to work fine in this case  

Hicham:I got this idea from the first Goama. The "tricked" variation gives White the corner and Black overwelming influence. The refutation gives White influence and Black the corner. Thing is that it end with Black having the next move, so he can blunt White's thickness, and build a position with B.

Herman Hiddema: B5 is indeed a know trick play. In my opinion however, several of the diagrams given in Goama issue 1 are wrong. [ext] Diagrams available here. In diagrams D, E and F for example, the atari with W1 is a mistake, because without the W1-B2 exchange, the geta that black plays later on would not work! There has been discussion on this variation under BQM186

Some other variations:

One space low extension, Black outside hane. White alternative play.  

B7 at black+circle. I believe this is bad for White, given the ladder aji, the thinness of the moyo and the poor position of white+circle shapewise.

One space low extension. Black outside hane (continued)  

The nice thing about black+circle, is that this joseki needs a White extension at a, which is impossible due to black+square. W5 is cramped.

AndyPierce: Mingjiu Jiang 7 Dan in Punishing And Correcting Joseki Mistakes calls black's outside hane black+circle a "trick play" and says that the sequence in the adjacent diagram, with W5 moved to black+square, is a sufficient refutation. He points out that black could have played as shown in the next diagram. (page 17 of the book.)

Better for Black. Black touches below White.  

Should White play this way, she is even more cramped by black+circle, and her wall is one stone less high.

One space low extension, Black inside hane  

For what it's worth Jiang Mingjiu also says that Black's position is low and unimaginative, so this joseki is rarely seen in modern play. I'm not qualified to say whether this may be justified under these circumstances for Black to force his way out to the left.

Charles In this game position, this looks to me like quite a good choice for Black.


Here it seems to me that both black+circle and black+square are working well in limiting White.

Better for Black ?  

Dieter: I discarded B2 because I expected the avalanche move at W3 and didn't want White to build additional influence towards white+circle. It is too much to expect W3 at a. I played the inward hane because black+circle refutes White's refutation of it. It may not be joseki if no other stones are present, but I'd like to know whether it is still advised against when black+circle is present.

Black alternative: Butt the White stone.  

Bill: I, too, would worry about the nadare. In such a case, the butt, B2, is a preventative. This is a likely continuation. If W4 instead of W3, Black replies at a, and black+circle is well placed.

Dieter: After W7, can we say that due to both positions being high, the lower side is important for both and that the stabilizing moves of b or c for Black or White respectively, are urgent ?

Black alternative: one space high pincer  

Dave: Did you consider and reject the pincer at B2? If W3, B4 seems to be along the lines of what you wanted to achieve.

Black alternative: one space high pincer (continued). Strange game?!  

Charles I presume W1 next, aiming at White at a and a game based on influence. Black has played from the thick side, so White keeps away from the top right.

I have to say this is quite an odd position. The black+square stone on the right side is not so well balanced. White approaching is not very well co-ordinated with the lower left wall (which is not quite the joseki result anyway). Normally Black is quite respectful in answering white+square.

Dave: I would agree that there are some interesting aspects in what has come before. The keima on the left looks too early to me. If Black had simply answered at a, the original White pincer stone would have been badly overconcentrated. White would have had to approach the bottom right from the bottom side to make any sense out of the position I think.

Was it like this?  

Dave: It looks to me like the marked White stone is overconcentrated (of course Black wishes the marked Black stone were on one of the points marked a as well). White has a difficult time here I believe. Playing from the direction of W3 tries to make sense of the wall to the left but if Black just keeps it simple with B4...

Charles It's certainly an interesting study. Not to give the players a hard time - it is well known that positions in which both players have erred are much harder, if one wants to draw any definition conclusions.

Joseki choice. Black touches White on the outside.  

One thing that comes up: in this position the main pro choice is the circled point, to play into the pushing battle line The squared points are seen, too. But no examples of extending to the middle of the side. So that is perhaps a bit lukewarm.

3-4 point high approach low extension, whole board last edited by on July 2, 2006 - 05:23
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