# Beginner Exercise 11 / Discussion

Sub-page of BeginnerExercise11
Solution.

unkx80: This is the solution. can be played at a instead. Likewise, can be played at b instead.

Here is another solution:

Solution.

White is dead now. Continuations don't work for white:

Solution.

White goes peacefully

There is death in the hane. Black reduces White's eyespace twice, and then makes the nakade (placement) inside, reducing White to one eye. It doesn't matter that and are in atari; White's resistance with a play at either point a is met by a black play at the adjacent b; and White must solidify before she can cut, giving Black time to protect at the appropriate c.

is wrong

unkx80: Sorry but I did not notice the mistake in your description earlier. Your description suggested that should be answered at . But it gives a possibility to open up a ko. If Black tries to avoid the ko with onwards, eventually he is caught in a net by and still has to fight the ko.

is wrong

kevinwm: There's no need to make this complicated. If w tries to escape with , b can just continue to the corner with , , etc.

Even running away at the first hane won't work:

White resists with a hane on the other side

Black has to be careful not to let White escape or make a second eye near the corner here. is tesuji, I think.

kevinwm: is tesuji IF white has stones close by. There are no such stones in this case. Let's keep this simple and focused on the beginner problem - killing 7 stones on the 2nd line.

At this point, c is answered by a, and otherwise the pairs a and b, d and e, and f and g are all miai; Black kills.

The instant that White seals off a 1x3 space (which Black will force with this line of play), Black must play at the middle of it. Even if Black leaves two stones in atari in the left side as a result, White cannot live:

Why not just kill White?

Jasonred- There's no ko in this case, so wouldn't this be the time to play ? With a and b, is this miai? Anyhow, if White a, Black b, if White b, Black a.

Why not just kill White?

unkx80: will make and miai. lives with a straight four. But if Black allows White to cut at , the white group escapes.[1]

kevinwm: Again, 3 is not necessary. Play 3 at 5.

White's escape fails, so she tries atari...

unkx80: should simply be played at a, leaving the option of the throw-in at open.

White's escape fails, so she tries atari... (continued)
... but a throw-in tesuji finishes the job

unkx80: should play at a or b instead, because playing at in the diagram leaves the possibility of Black opening up a ko at a.

One more way to resist, you say, since White still has liberties and a cutting point? Now White is too close to the corner. Things get even tricker here:

What *now*?

at a is insufficient; at b will destroy the second eye and White has no more hope of escaping. ( at a will fail for the same reason; at or elsewhere lets Black capture at and it's 'game over' for White again). So will be at b, c or d. We'll look at White b; you should be able to convince yourself that White c and d either transpose to positions in this line, or let Black play at b safely.

What *now*?

at (yet another throw-in); at . finishes the kill; White is easily prevented from escaping. (White cannot cut and run on the other side because of the atari at the circled point.) At either or , White might try to run further with another hane at :

What *now*?

Now at , at and Black can either take in snapback or protect with a or b. White is kept in atari the whole time and never has a chance of a second eye.

I think unkx80 has a point about protecting the cut first. Looks like I'm a victim of concurrent editing. ^^;

unkx80: Of course protecting the cut first is better. What if I add a white stone in the problem at the 2-2 point?

Alternate?

So I'm feeling a bit dumb here. My natural affinity for symmetry had me consider this position first. I don't see the flaw.

OK, after a lot of thought, I see the flaw. Immediate reply is here:

Response

At this point White will get two eyes directly, or a four-point long eye which lives. Black d gives White a, trading b for c or vice versa. Black a, b, or c gives White d, which collapses to a four-point space - alive.

-JoshuaRodman?

Dieter: If Black b, White is more likely to answer at a, because this gives life with eyes and points. White d Black a gives a seki: no points.

unkx80: If Black b then White can also play tenuki.

djifmaster: tenuki and at a leads to seki ( at d). Doesn't it?

xela: Correct. White can tenuki and it's OK because black can't kill.

djifmaster: But in case of endgame, tenuki won't be the best move at any time. Because seki => 0 points for White, at a at least 4 points.

xela: In other words, playing at a to avoid the seki is worth 4 points in reverse sente, therefore tenuki is correct if white can make more than 8 points somewhere else, roughly speaking. (Actually, I think it's more like 6 points, not 4.) I don't want to get into a long discussion of endgame theory on this page; you can follow the endgame path to learn more about these things.

Bill: For that endgame question, see Endgame Question.

If you're like me

Didn't see this right away, until I started diagraming it as a possible solution. Ends with 2 eyes for white. Coyotebd

David: Actually, is unnecessary as White at would only create a false eye. would instead be played at , thus preventing a second eye from being formed and killing the group. However, if at instead, we end up with the following:

Another Rendition

With a and b miai for life, as explained by JoshuaRodman? above.

Another Rendition

AdamMarquis: Points a and b are not miai for life, as even if black gets both of them white can take the four stones and have an eye.

Florent? : As a beginning beginner i am also fond of symmetry and still do not see the flaw in this sequence :

Death

playing 3 in the inside forces white to w4 (death) ...

... or to the option mentioned above by Unkx80, which I show in the diagramme below

Seki

any help ? or link to a concept i missed please ? thks

Bill: leads to seki, as the last diagram indicates.

[1]

Bill: Can White escape and make an eye in the corner? It looks pretty complicated to me. Anyway, why take the chance?

Beginner Exercise 11 / Discussion last edited by 68.124.70.8 on December 11, 2011 - 17:54