3-3 point invasion query 1

  Difficulty: Intermediate   Keywords: Joseki, Question
[Diagram]
Trouble for White?  

Scartol: I apologize if this seems like a facile question, but I'm starting to get into the 3-3 invasion, and I don't know what I'm doing.

Suppose Black plays the low hane instead of the high with B4. I assume W5, but what then? Can't Black come around with B6 and slam into White's corner, possibly killing it?



Bill: I think that usually W5 at B6 is better.

Adamzero: For Black to make the hane at B4 is unreasonable. It could lead to many possible results, three of which I've shown, and none of which are any good for Black.

[Diagram]
White walks on the fourth line  

The first diagram lets White make territory on the fourth line and leaves Black with tons of cutting points.

[Diagram]
White lives with aji  

The second diagram lets White live easily and get the aji of the clamp at a or, considering the strength of White's corner, the cut at b or the hane at c if Black responds to protect at d.

[Diagram]
White lives with aji - variant  

The third diagram leaves Black with even more cutting points, and Black cannot prevent White from using at least one of them, if desired.


JamesA: Sorry, Adamzero, but I'm not sure your analysis is correct!

[Diagram]
White crawls on the second line  

I think W5 is an overplay. Can't Black cut with B6 to punish it?

[Diagram]
White lives with aji?  

White [Do you mean Black here?] can play at W10, eliminating the cut at b in your diagram, and taking away the value of c. Black is now thick on the outside - I think this position is OK for Black. The clamp at a is a gote endgame move; if Black answers with d, White must then play e. This is only big if Black tries to make territory at the top.



Bill Spight: White can cut at d instead, and Black has no ladder. B10 is better at b.
[Diagram]
The same  

This sequence is more or less the same as the last. Black should finish up with B9, leaving very little aji for White. Black is pretty thick again. However, this is not as good as the joseki variations covered earlier.



Adamzero: Thanks for the corrections.


[Diagram]
Joseki  

Dieter 1d: In answer to B3, White can also counter hane and leave the capture at a for later. B5 is to prevent the cut at b. After this joseki, White has peeps at c and/or d.

Bill: That is joseki?

[Diagram]
Joseki? (2)  

How about W1? After B2 - W3, Black has difficulties. Now a and b are miai for White to live in the corner.

[Diagram]
Joseki? (3)  

B4 fills the ko.

After W7 Black again has difficulties.

[Diagram]
Not Joseki either  

Dieter: You are right Bill, I was getting confused with this line of play.

DJ: I have changed the name of the diagram, which cannot really be considered Joseki, see 44Point33InvasionJosekiHaneInsideCut.

Bill: In response to a question by mAsterdam as to when the second line hane is correct, here is the only case I know. It is one joseki when Black makes a one-space pincer.

[Diagram]
Joseki  
[Diagram]
According to Baduk TV 2 in the previous diagram is a slack move - White should punish Black as in the following diagram:  
[Diagram]
Possible continuation:  
[Diagram]
Best sequence for black is, but hane on the second line should be played only in special circumstances.  

3-3 point invasion query 1 last edited by 129.215.26.109 on June 28, 2013 - 11:02
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