Pushing battles in joseki 8

  Difficulty: Expert   Keywords: Joseki
Atari underneath variation  

Playing B7 from beneath (rather than at a) is given superficial treatment in Ishida - just two diagrams. See 3-4 point high approach one-space low pincer for those. There is a ladder question, but this joseki occurs in pro games even when the ladder is good for White.

That is, the following development is sometimes seen:

Atari underneath variation  

Naturally with a bad ladder W5 will prepare for a net instead.

Pushing line  

Instead B2 is correct shape to hold everything together. W5 as shown is now joseki: Ishida gives White at a (Sakata Eio-Fujisawa Hideyuki 1961-03-08) which appears now to be obsolete. The issue now is whether or how White continues to push along. There is some curious aji in the corner.

Pushing line (continuation)  

W1 here is normal, with a and b also having been played. Black responds at c or d (but not hane [1]). White in the latter case then closes off the open skirt or gets ahead with the knight's move.


Hashimoto Utaro-Rin Kaiho 1974-05-02 continued in this way, with Black 11 at a for a fight in the centre. Omitting 6 was tried in a recent Korean game.

[1] Black hane in response to W1 was played by Christoph Gerlach 5d against Hans Pietsch in the 1996 Fujitsu Cup. White cut immediately.

Pietsch's cut  

After B2 we have transposed.

Kim's variation  

Seong-june Kim 6d gives this variation. This looks bad for White, unless there is some corner aji to use.

Pushing Battles in Joseki 8 Corner Aji Discussion: what can White do in the corner now?

togo: It should be noted that the three white stones don't have to survive to be useful. They can be aji themselves or can be immediately sacrificed.

Korean book analysis  

A Korean book considers this possible situation, with B8 avoiding being shut in rather than attending to the corner.

Charles Matthews

Go to Pushing battles in joseki 9

Pushing battles in joseki 8 last edited by togo on December 16, 2012 - 19:48
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