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September 29 2016

Spam posting [ext] Seems to be an advertize for carpeting.

Deleted. --unkx80

July 2016

tapir: Just (accidentally version) deleted "Citation needed template" in case anyone wonders. It looked like an accident ("TEST"). Please look for actual template pages to see how templates are set up. Admittedly, I really doubt there is much benefit in kicking around "someone else please do something about it" templates in SL.

January 2016

I just found (where the sgf specifications reside) is down. Will this be down forever? (Arno knows) --RueLue

I can access the web site. --unkx80

Oops - right, now it works. Fine! --RueLue

November 08, 2015

Recent Changes shows a new page Ajo. It seems to be a definition in Spanish of the go term aji. The title must be a typo ("o" is right next to "i" on the keyboard). Probably the new user Fernando? is not able to change the title.

tapir: There already is a page for aji. If this aims to be a spanish glossary of go terms with short definitions, maybe it would be best to put the short definitions in the glossary page. Let us see, if and how OP continues.

September 24, 2015

There was a "talk" posting to the discussion page for Front Page requesting crowdfunding support for a game other than go. Delete?

July 30, 2015

tapir: Can we delete old "I was here." type homepages (i.e. those without incoming links due to SL activity) with the understanding, that this does not in any way presuppose a "quality threshold" for new pages? The pruning of old humour pages in a similar way went largely unnoticed. (A contributing factor to pointless homepages is the old librarian practice of "turn to homepage" instead of deleting, I have done it myself countless times and I was not the only one.)

July 13, 2015

tapir: Random pages still sends you to phantom pages occasionally. (Seems the index is messed up since the data loss.)

June 29, 2015

tapir: Sadly, there are a few editors, who care about details, but don't understand template usage at all. Copy-pasting the content of the template, instead of using the template: [ext] This may look similar to the template, but won't show up in generated lists. I am baffled by this, since the template page already states: "And this is the part for the page in question: {{Remove | YOUR REASON}}"

June 2, 2015

Dave: On April 1st the Nihon Kiin updated its website and broke most (all?) links. (See [ext] this post on L19 as well.) I just updated the picture for Yamabe Toshiro. The old link was "". This changed to "". Is there a way to check how often the 'player/img-2/XXXXX.gif' string is used in the database and see whether a global replace with 'images/player/XXXXX.jpg' will work?

PeterHB: I believe I've updated these Dave.

tapir: Great effort, but there are many other broken image links both nihon ki-in and elsewhere. For the Nihon Ki-in there is also the [ext] naming scheme that is broken now.

February 15, 2015

tapir: vanished, all links broken.

axd: a symptom of the Web: it's so easy to create websites, but not so easy to keep them afloat...

January 21, 2015

tapir: Kansai Ki-in changed its webpage a while back, all links to professional profiles broken, only a few repaired so far.

December 13, 2014

Two pages just created, Aubry123 and Letterjoy47 by spammers

Timm: Yep, and there was one yesterday as well. It's probably a bot and I don't know how we could deal with it.

tapir: And one the day before etc. It just comes and goes periodically. For librarians it would require fewer key strokes if the spam address is only delinked not removed. Thanks for the vigilance.

Timm: What do you mean by “the spam address is only delinked not removed” ?

tapir: delinked so it is only plaintext, then it doesn't take as long to recover it. (usually they are blacklisted to not be added again, not only deleted) not very important, but since you asked.

October 2, 2014

Dieter: I removed a lot of pages which were tagged "removed" or "abandoned" and were rotting in the library. There has been no objection (or activity at all) so if this action stirs up a few people, perhaps that's the real benefit.

tapir: No objection here. (I just noticed you didn't remove any forums threads in the process. In my experience removing a page does not remove the associated forum (although it is not accessible) and the content still floats around in the database and shows up again when a page of that pagename is recreated. Probably this does not really matter.)

axd: often such information remains forever in the underlying DB and is only flagged to be no longer shown, so it might be interesting to be able to fish it up if someone wants to see the rotten stuff.

June 29, 2014

tapir: Please take a look at Winter Go and the inlined image. Never seen sth. like that before (took away the original pic and substituted it with this "warning"). (+ Someone spammed this page right while I was editing it.)

Hyperpape: It's a fairly common response to "hotlinking", as it's called.

May 6, 2014

axd: I already raised this issue a while ago (sorry, can't remember where/when): why will (e.g.) "[ext]" lead to a "Wiki fatal error" if version 5 of a page is its most recent version, and will work if version 5 is an older version? Especially if that is a valid request?

tapir: I tried to answer, but honestly I don't understand it.

Dieter: the behavior is odd indeed. It throws an exception for new=6 and 5=old too, but for 4=new and 5=old, it doesn't. Anyway, it's a minor bug it seems.

April 9, 2014

The page The Going Insurrection seems a little inappropriate. Rather than being about the game it seems to be a platform for radical political thinking. Remove?


1. Who is proposing to remove it?

2. The page seems to be alive. I propose to focus deletion efforts to dead parts of the wiki.

tapir: I fear thinking in Black and White might actually be detrimental to revolutionary efforts. :) Basically, we have tons of apply x to Go or apply Go to x pages, from biblical strategy to cold war nuggets about understanding the Chinese through Weiqi. Seriously, it can only help our good cause (spread of Go, that is) if a political movement draws its vocabulary from the game - more of the same: [ext], [ext]

August 30, 2013

Enfors: I'm currently in Japan to practice the martial art Shorinji Kempo. While I haven't played go in a while, it suddenly struck me that now is the perfect time to by go stones and maybe some bowls. I will be in Kyoto for another 5 days before going back home. I don't have a clue where / how to find a shop that sells this stuff. Any ideas on how to look for one?

Bob McGuigan: The Kansai Kiin [ext] has a shop that sells go equipment. They are in Osaka but maybe you could get there before you leave Japan. If you telephone them they could probably suggest places in Kyoto. The only gobanten (Go board shop) I could find easily online is Nishimura Gobanten, 1-36 Kameoka City, Kyoto telephone 077 1220763 I have no experience with this shop. Another one is Nagano Gobanten (永野碁盤店 at 京都府京都市中京区土手町通竹屋町上る末丸町256 ) Again no experience with them.

August 23, 2013

tapir: Banned domtheo, spamming links to indonesian ads, version erased all three instances.

August 13, 2013

It seems that [ext] is no longer working correctly. Can anyone take a look to see what happened?

July 24, 2013

axd: I have the impression that SL is dying. For example, the [ext] diff-in-page bug is still there and nothing seems to be being done about it. Since the data loss I have lost a lot of confidence in SL as a long-term knowledge store. The other bug reports and nagging issues that seem to creep up only make my feelings stronger.

172: I agree with you that SL gives off this impression. I think it's mostly just atmospheric, though - people are still making important contributions. However, the accumulation of barnacles and defunct conversations from 2004 makes it seem like a cemetery. I think on the whole, accumulating unwieldy discussions interlaced with the articles themselves was a mistake.

tapir: I don't see what the existence of an odd bug has to do with a lack of confidence in the future existence of SL. Arno takes pride in keeping SL going despite having moved on. Fortunately very little actual content was lost in the data loss and as I understood Arno a situation like the data loss is unlikely to arise again with the new safeguards put in place. But it is no secret that he has moved on and is not active in SL now other than in rare moments he decides to add a new feature or fix a few bugs. He has offered access to the code a long time ago, but to my knowledge nobody came forward who is both capable and willing to work on the code.

axd: FYI, the diff bug is a regression (I can't remember for sure, but it was my impression that it didn't exist prior the crash), as if (my impression) not only the data but also the code took a (small) ditch. didn't know about Arno situation, but if he offered the code maybe he could consider releasing it on GitHub.

hogweed: I think SL is probably less popular before, but it is still a quoted reference on a lot of topics.

Dieter: I'd call SL a stable reference, not dead. The discussion has moved to L19 for a long time now, that's true. L19 and gogameguru both often refer to SL.

April 1, 2013

tapir: It seems pages removed quite a long time ago (not only since March) are restored after the data loss. I am quite sure I removed the professionals pupils pages ages ago, when I put all the content on the main pages of the professionals.

tapir: Several (all) pictures linked from gogameworld are gone. We need substitutes.

tapir: Ok, this day is probably busy enough, but I just realized now that the full text search doesn't search the forum pages or did it before and this is a side effect of data loss?

Arno: the search never covered the forum pages. It has been missing for ages.

tapir: It was my personal memory loss, ouch. I used to know this.

RobertJasiek: Arno, please clarify whether or not it is an April's joke. Afterwards, possibly it makes more sense to explore local file copies.

tapir: This is no April's joke. SL was offline the last two days.

Arno: @Robert: some of your pages are in the ZIP below. I don't have anything more.

Arno: Here's a quick hack that can help resurrecting pages from HTML: [ext] Suggestions welcome.

tapir: Has anyone local backups / caches of some of the lost pages? There was a lot work done on several index/introductory pages and a lot of problem solutions were added - that is what I remember best of the last month.

Arno: unless you have it in your browser cache, there's only Google cache as alternative. I have some files here: [ext] You could also try Bing, Yahoo or others. does not currently have a new snapshot available.

tapir: Personally I am most interested in the last versions of

  • Contradictory Information (WME lost if I remember correctly)
  • Link Collection (cache available @bing)

I don't miss the discussion on efficiency that I started that much :)

Hyperpape: Retrieving data from google chrome's cache seems to be quite difficult, and other browsers may be similar. However, in hopes that someone might be able to do it, the best thing to do is immediately copy your cache to somewhere else on your filesystem, in case anyone wants to try (I would like to, but cannot promise that I will be able--the GC cache is encrypted, and I know of no public information about how to get past that encryption on a non-Windows environment).

tapir: I wipe out my browser cache fairly regularly, but Bing has quite a lot of the pages I looked for cached recently, but retrieving only the html it is a pain to redo pages like the link collection.

axd: was content lost? how far goes the loss back? (edit added: right - just saw the Recent Changes page... so what does that tell us? Maybe an announcement could help a bit?)

tapir: Arno had the same idea: SLDataLossInMarch2013

March 17 (recovered from bing cache w/o links)

What is our long-term strategy for pages that are currently just people chatting? For example, ContradictoryInformation. Is the goal to eventually replace the conversation with an encyclopedic treatment of the topic, to preserve that conversation in a time-capsule for forever, or to delete it once the conversation is long dead?

tapir: Honestly, there isn't a policy. I removed dozens of low content discussion pages over time, but there is no explicit goal to remove discussions altogether or to distill everything into encyclopedic treatment of topics (although this is the tendency), in some cases discussion may provide better coverage and avoid controversy. SL is not Wikipedia (and in fact older) after all. But yes, the urge to preserve everything ever said in SL is partially responsible for no/slow editing on some topics - "looks controversial -> avoid".

OP: Okay, well... I think I'll start to get violent with these sorts of pages, when I have the time. It's one of the main things giving SL the appearance of an abandoned wiki. If people squawk about their conversations getting mutilated, maybe that will bring them back into active participation in SL!

tapir: Contradictory information is an obvious candidate for either a WME or for moving to quick questions / chat zones like coffee machine, but w/ WME you will end up repeating different opinions on the matter. Contradictory information happens regularly when you are taught by amateurs, some people shop for different opinions, some people hate it - hard to get an unified opinion on the matter. If all possible positions are covered well enough in a conversation one can just as well keep it, at least this is a common reasoning.

Dieter: Pages in a discussion format, while they annoy me too, are only a real problem for the library (being perceived as an abandoned wiki) if they are prominent, i.e. rank high in the "forward by distance" metric. Random pages are not necessarily an issue. Aside from that, SL IS somewhat of an abandoned WIKI, especially if you look at the activity that former editors maintain at L19. But, 172.x.x.x you are very welcome indeed. Could you start by making a homepage, it chats so much easier. BTW, there is a page called Library Work. Feel free!

Feb 11, 2013

There is a posting on the forum for Wiki Etiquette about Chinese goe stones that seems out of place. Maybe move it to a page about yunzi?

tapir: Done. Thanks for your attention to details.

Jan 09, 2013

I just came across an old [ext] RGG post of mine - what happened to the SL page Database Ko? ?

tapir: I removed it ages ago. It was the "making fun of Robert Jasiek" type of humour page, if I remember correctly. Maybe funny to laugh at once, but no need to keep it forever. Well, I remember it was when we were trying to reorganize ko pages last year.

axd: I created the page, but I can't remember the content. AFAIK it was a type of ko that could exist because of technical limitations. It was not meant to be funny.

tapir: I can remember, it was: "This ko rule prohibits players to play so many moves that the database finally overflows. To avoid mixing up with the other types of ko (ssk, psk, etc), imagine a period after the 'k' and the 'o'."

yes, I found it in the archive too - it was humour after all. and you shouldn't have deleted it. never heard of "RJ-type of humour".

Dieter: Apparently, the removal didn't leave a screaming gap in the library. However, if you can reconstruct it from the archive and do find it has value in the library, then by all means recreate the page and the librarians apologize for their excessive zeal.

Dieter doing some library work, adding keywords to all the ko pages who had none previously. And really, those expert pages are profoundly messy.

Oct.14, 2012

RueLue: The results on the search page show a text snippet from the found page under it's title. It would be nice, if the snippets would be from the occurrence of the search term(s), the search terms possibly marked with underline or color.

Sept. 29, 2012

RueLue: Hi coders! There are some things incorrect in the diff view:

Very often it shows a deleted empty line, where have been no edits in that area (see [ext] ). If this is a bug, it is an old bug.

RueLue: It is now some time ago, that I saw this happening (or was it an added line?). When I wrote this, I just saw a deleted line where I didn't remember an edit. It seems, it had been repaired long ago and I didn't realize.

The standard diff of another edit ( [ext] ) shows as first edit a linking of a name (the real edit). The corresponding diff-in-page view shows a deletion of half of the line. Apparently there have been several edits in a row (e.g. corrections of a previous edit) from the same IP. I went through the page versions, bot none showed a deletion in the "Author:" line in the info-box.

Interestingly the diff-in-page view for vers.84 shows - instead of the inserted info-box - "Error: Invalid name of template. ...". This is possibly a result of an edit of the corresponding software template at the same time.

Happy coding! Ruedi

Sep 13, 2012

Has there been any work on creating a template for an info box for software pages? I thought of something like: [ext] --RueLue

Tapir: No. It should be possible to generate such a template with the current template capabilities, however.
RueLue: It was not trivial to construct that template. Please check if something can be done better.

Jun 28, 2012

Anonymous: When playing in real life and capturing stones, is it ok to pick the first stone of the opponent before placing yours so there is room to pick the rest without disturbing the positions?

Tapir: I wouldn't complain but it isn't ok either. Better to exercise picking up stones without disturbance.

Jan 27, 2012

tapir: I read stuff like this ([ext] with amazement. A bit sad to see how postings on L19 are reinterpreted and spread.

Jan 1, 2012

Happy 2012 to all deshis - Dieter

Dec 8, 2011

RueLue: There are (several?) pages on Sensei's with links to, but since month I see only error messages coming up, when a discussion thread should be shown. Is it possible to deactivate those links (run a script over all pages) or, if possible, change all links in a way, that the possibly still existing discussions are called with the right URL? (Are the data still there?)

Tapir: Afaik L19 has a complete copy of all godiscussions material. But it isn't online.

Hyperpape: Google chrome has a web cache extension that let's you access many different cached versions of a page. If I run across any GD links, I'll see if I can find anything on those pages. Or you could show me some of the links.

Jul 19, 2011

MrTenuki: I noticed that Walkie Talkie Seven was chosen as the Article of the Week. Was this decision partly based on its level of detail? I'm asking because I am not sure whether my SDK-level analysis (which led to the major edits over the last two months) is correct. For the record, my main findings were:

  • For most of the game, both players would probably want to leave the corner alone.
  • Although either player may win the ten-thousand-year ko given enough large ko threats, I don't see that option being profitable until the late endgame since the other player would get 2-4 moves elsewhere as compensation.
  • Hence, unless Black spends a move to make six points in the corner, the position will most likely become a seki at the end of the game one way or another (which is expected for mannen-kos).

But there are two issues I'm so unsure about that I intentionally left them out of the article:

1. When is it better for Black to play B4 elsewhere instead of making the ten-thousand-year ko immediately, and vice versa? And if it's better to make the ko, should Black try to lose it as soon as possible if White is komaster (per the analogy with the situation Bill Spight described in Square Nine In The Corner)? I'm asking because I don't see the following looking good for Black to me in the "White is komaster" case:

If Black tries to lose the ko ASAP... (W5 = tenuki, B8 and B10 = tenuki)  

Result: Black gets one net move elsewhere, while White makes 20 points. Why wouldn't Black want to play elsewhere for the time being to try to gain ko threat parity with White, which might result in the position being settled as a seki at the end of the game per Variation #3? Or is this variation still better in most cases, because White (being komaster) will wait until Black's in a position where tenuki is worth almost nothing to commit to capturing the corner (i.e. play W7 in Variation #4? Or am I interpreting the "lose the ko ASAP if you're the koloser" idea incorrectly?

2. It would also be nice if the approximate conditions for which a specific variation is best (e.g. in terms of the miai value of the largest tenuki) could be determined. Knowing the minimum sizes of the ko threats needed for either side to settle the corner as something other than a seki would also be more than useful.

Again, I know that this is a lot... but given the AotW status of the page, I would really appreciate it if any dan player could be kind enough to address these issues and conduct another round of WME (I would really prefer not to leave any incorrect kyu-level analysis on my part in the page). Thanks.

Tapir: Well, I can't offer big CGT-style analysis. But the idea of making a one-thousand year ko is NOT to play B6 in your last diagram (or play there only if you can win the ko). If White wants anything, she has to play there. Then Black can retake the (now-direct) ko. However, if White starts the ko after a Black tenuki, it still is a 1000 year ko. If White spends another move to assure seki any time soon, I would just celebrate. So, B4 tenuki is best 99% of the time (for the same reason Black doesn't play B6). For practical endgame purposes I would treat the whole thing as seki after W3 and wait until 6 point gote are the biggest moves elsewhere before I make it (if Black defends it is 6 points territory, if white invades, let us say it is seki). The ko follow up is smaller than that even if White is ko-master (3 moves in a row for a whopping 16 points improvement upon seki) so it can wait until later. But being ko-master in the CGT sense is sth. which rarely happens in a game, because that means no move of ordinary value that has a bigger follow up than itself (i.e. no sente move) can be played, usually you gain back a little even if you don't have threats big enough to win the ko. In fact, when you are ko master in a real game, you are likely a ko monster too, because you have unlimited ko threats via double ko or nearly so via large semeai.

Jul 14, 2011

anonymous: User crasmarum has created an irrelevant and spam-like entry on the discussion page of User Preferences Delete or change to a sub-page of user page?

PeterHB: I agree with the sentiment. Moved to Crasmarum/StrangeTsumego.

tapir: The tsumego was obviously added at the wrong place. Problems like this are unfortunately pretty common, but they should be solved by a friendly word and an helping hand. To call it spam-like and irrelevant is very inappropriate, especially as it is a nice ladder problem.

PeterHB: Actually I had thought of saying 'I agree with the sentiment, but not the expression'. But hey, lets not get too fussed about it. Crasmarum wasn't perfect, neither was anonymous, and neither was I.

Apr 4, 2011

FDG seems to asking for attention again, on subjects that are not only not related to Go, but also controvesial: see p:8341.

Mar 27, 2011

Arno: Sorry that SL was again unreachable some time on Sunday. I thought I had fixed the problems caused by a software update three weeks ago, but apparently not so. I'm still investigating. Maybe I have to update the system's kernel, in order to keep up with changes in Apache.

Dec 30, 2010

Seems to be some sort of vandalism/spam on the talk page for BQM89. See Recent Changes

Dec 29, 2010

Could someone add a picture of a professional diploma to the professional diploma page....its the barest of stubs right now.

Dec 27, 2010

Notwithstanding important contributions (and having a faint idea of related discussions), I still have the impression that whenever possible, a maximum of contributions should point to internal rather than external stuff. Example: this contribution delta refers to an URL that might become unreachable, therefore reducing the value of the contribution. Instead, the referenced stuff should receive its own page in SL. A page such as Japanese 2003 Rules is a similar example of how not to do it. In other words, the meat should be on SL, otherwise SL degrades to a portal. Maybe a "More Meat Required template?" should be introduced to flag such pages. --axd

3rd nov.2010

RueLue: I tried the TOC+/TOC- tricks and they didn't work (you can see it on the sandbox/subpage page (v.15) ). Is this old and needs update?

1.November 2010

RueLue: I just had a problem adding a comment: no preview, no save edits. Browser was Firefox 3.6.12 in Linux (another Fox profile had the same problem); I tried the same with Opera and had no problem. (the comment is now added). Some minutes later the same problem with Opera. Instead of saving, the front page opened and nothing was added in the message board. (shake head) Now i managed to add it, but this is strange; I haven't observed this before. Oh - cancel edit was no problem

RueLue: I just had the same problem after a day of no problems. So it goes like this: editing and preview = ok ... more editing and preview ... ok ... a bit more and problem. Delete a bit: preview = ok. Clearing cache and cookies didn't solve this. I finished editing on another machine without problem. Here is Ubuntu 10.4(.1?), Gnome, Firefox 3.6.12; the other machine is a WinXP (forgot: same local network). Has anyone else observed this problem?

RueLue: Problem solved: some guru played with the local network =:(

27 October 2010

RueLue: I wonder, if it is possible to search for the developing of a discussion on an already deleted page. Example: KGSWishlist/Unsorted has a part about sorting of the games list. Can you say, who wrote what? Has all been written by one person (one edit)?

tapir: I missed it. And no I can't look for it anymore, it reads like there were two different editors. An "anonymous" for the unknown should do however.

When going through the text thoroughly for formating, I saw: it's all been one person!

tapir: Well, MortArno have access to removed pages as well, in case something important gets lost. But I am really astonished how much you care for each and every unsigned and unsorted contribution (I mean I moved the content, didn't I?). Is it important at all whether it was the same person who proposed it?

07 October 2010

RueLue: While cleaning a KGS wishlist I wonder if there is a method to find a specific change of the page without opening 10 or 20 page versions or diffs.

tapir: There is a page history linked as such on the left side. Consecutive edits by the same user are however not always listed separately.

RueLue: It's time consuming to find the meaning of a text in the relation of it's writing, and also to find out, when a piece has been written or who wrote text pieces, which (by placement) seemingly belong together, but make no sense together. Now, I search through the versions including the "mother"-page KGSWishlist, where it began. Maybe a programmer here has too much time to write a script for this. Would be: tell it the pages to search for the addition (or deletion) of a phrase or word and display the result in chronological order.

10 September 2010

isd Would anyone like to play a game of Go here on Senseis Library using the Tibetan ko rule? A lot of people always say that the nature of this ko rule complete changes the character of the game, and I would like to see how true that is. We can play on a smaller board if it helps - say 15x15. Also open to some form of Rengo.

willemien maybe even smalletr 7x7? if you like we can just start a page tibetan ko rule game?

2 September 2010

Bob McGuigan: Someone with IP address has posted a message regarding stackexchange on the forum for my home page. I note that the same person posted the identical message on the forum for Herman Hiddema's home page and also on the forum for Dieter's homepage. It might be the case that this stackexchange deserves a page of it's own but posting the same message on several forums constitutes spam in my book. I see now that he's done it to Tapir, too. I think the culprit may be ikktomuseyokkis. See the most recent edit of Weiqi Places in China

Velobici: You might be right, Bob. Appears to be a person that believes we could make use of stackexchange to help us produce higher quality web pages. That person may be using these messages to try and drum up some support among folks that he perceives as influential regarding being able to shape the future of Sensei's Library. for the idea of using stackexchange. Stackexchange appears to use votes to "grade" web pages or responses to questions. Its the popularity contest method of trying to get quality. Presumably you have to login to award votes/points/stars (whatever) and are limited to one vote per page.

tapir: This approach sounds interesting, but I have doubts whether it is very useful for English speaking go community (too small). By introducing bonus activities like voting, adding categories (or controlling pages before showing it to the public as in German Wikipedia) quality may increase or not, but it tends to reduce participation even more. At least for SL I would say it is at or below a critical level already. (Tons of people reading the pages, referring to them on go servers and forums but little contribution and even less maintenance. See Article of the Week, see activity on all the templates we started to put in the articles. I doubt it helped much to crowd activity on sensitive spots. See the joseki pages.) Also it is limited to Questions and Answers, you can't WME that way.

PeterHB: The idea that ikktomuseyokkis = seems a reasonable guess. I can see that is making a faux pas by his multiple posting of his solicitations for people to contribute to what could be looked upon as a competing site. So far I've looked upon it with leniency. Only people who never do anything never make mistakes, so may need a little time to find his literary feet. I'm seeing him as an enthusiastic beginner, not a professional spammer. Leaning perhaps a little too much towards welcoming new people to SL seems the right thing to do. While I'm doubtful about the utility of stackexchange, it may be his enthusiasm of the moment. At some future date he may be an enthusiastic go wiki editor.

20 August 2010

Under Quick Questions the same poster started a "no subject" question and posted two blank replies. Delete?

PeterHB: Deleted as suggested.

29 july 2010

willemien: The [ext] page is a bit getting out of date.

Advertisements for Go discussions are better to be removed. (there are adverds for life in 19x19 The Smartgo adverts are old (it has more games than advertised)

Go plus plus still claims to be the strongest program (was a while back)

tapir: Yes, indeed. However this page is editable only by MortArno.

Can we worn them?

willemien update 31-10-2010 : it looks like the Community advertisements I hope it is only temporarily.

tapir: Morten replaced a lot of ads recently.

16 May 2010

Bob McGuigan: Vandal at work. posted spam links on Senseis Library, Wiki Etiquette and Menchis Site Map. I deleted the links.

tapir: I made adding these links impossible. Though this particular person seems to have quite a number of domain names at hand.

23 Apr 2010

Phelan: People keep adding speculation to Rapyuta. Is the speculation accepted knowledge, or just the result of rumours starting? Just re-signed an anonymous comment there.

22 Jan 2010

Dieter: With SL's 10th anniversary approaching, are there any plans for a real life convention? I mean, I've really been sharing a large part of my life with some of you, be it with varying intensity.

tapir: Where?

20 Jan 2010

Is there an article request page? I would like to have an English article on Bruno Rüger. Thanks.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

07 Dec 2009

How can user isd appear under Recent Changes without having a home page?

isd: Very easily :) You do not need a homepage to create an account on SL.

try ian davis :)

17 Nov 2009

Ruelue: It would be fine, if a regular, who knows the formating tricks, could review the formating pages, as some parts seem outdated.

tapir: square brackets do work. you just need to create a footnote with squarebrackets and a link with square brackets and a #. [1] You can rename the link like this Link

[1] This is a footnote.

tapir: I obviously missed the point, sorry.

16 Nov 2009

Bob McGuigan: Someone posted a question about becoming a pro on the talk page for Find Page. Shouldn't it be moved to Quick Questions or some other more relevant place?

17 Oct 2009

Ian? Is using Senseis Library as a place to store 'transcripts' of private conversations acceptable? I note there is a new one associated with KGS today. As a KGS admin I do not post transcripts on pages to perform character assassinations of various individuals. I do not believe that this would be acceptable behaviour. When an ordinary user does it I don't believe that is acceptable either. This adds nothing to Senseis Library as a repository of information on go theory and culture. It turns it into a repository for slander. I don't mind people complaining about KGS, but I think they should do so in a way that isn't designed as a personal attack. For example EvilEscapersFromKGS wouldn't be acceptable to me as a page, nor would WorstEverFoulMouthedUsersFromKGS .

tapir: Can you provide a link to the page you're referring to? Regards Tapir.

Ian KGS Worst Admin /Transcript02

PeterHB: We, as a community need to decide what we think of this. As an individual, I'm definitely against it, but as a librarian, I've let it slide. I haven't coherently thought it through, so I've not wanted to censor/erase when I'm not sure of whether this is truly an action for the good of the SL community. Currently I'm looking for others for thoughts. A particular aspect I dislike is failure to distinguish attacking an issue and attacking a person. Each KGS admin is a real person, and aiming vitriol at any individual seems just plain wrong. Campaigning on an issue seems fine to me, as long as it as least tangentially Go related.

tapir: We had a discussion [ext] here. (Where Peter deleted another transcript.) I admittedly don't see the character assassination in the transcript02, while it doesn't add to the repository part of SL I believe it is a service to KGS that people who are upset for some reasons can go to godiscussions and SL and complain about it (which obviously shouldn't include outright insult and character assassination). Sometimes it may result in solving a problem, sometimes not. But even if it only lessens the stress of someone without doing any harm it is a feature. Cleaning it up after some month may be useful, though.

Ian The transcript itself shows the admin doing a perfectly reasonable job, but the point is that it is a private conversation.

Dieter: I have always disliked the "worst assistant" page and I certainly do not think there should be room on SL for transcripts of private conversations. However, Arno has always been fairly liberal about what content can appear here, with the community itself as the major referee so I've been executing my role as a librarian with that in mind. Now the community is stepping up, in the instance of Ian, so we may start thinking about removal.

That said, one glimpse of the BigDoug chapter should tell William Schubert or any of his administrators there is something seriously wrong with this admin and his behaviour might do more harm to KGS than good. I had the honour myself to be kicked out of KGS for saying "isn't talking about other tournament results appropriate" in a tournament game. I didn't feel like returning for a week.

For me to defend the rights of an apparent bully is stretching my sense of justice. Still, I'd love to see the talk disappear from SL as much as I'd like to see a self correcting behaviour of the KGS admins.

Ian A significant number of admins and users didn't like that 'game related' policy and it vanished as a result of complaints by the normal channels. The 3 years worth of complaint which lies on the current SL page is basically just ignored.

  • Kirby: I'll refrain from making any statements as to the appropriate course of action, but I don't believe that it's accurate to say that the policy "vanished". Still, on a regular basis, users are asked to keep comments game related, particularly in games where a large number of observers are present. It may very well be a good thing to have such a policy, but the policy has not "vanished". It is not on the TOS, but it never was to begin with.

tapir: What about cleaning up the page(s) once in a while, leaving only the recent entries? I.e. I would rather remove transcript01 than transcript02.

Ian I think that would be a useful move. Transcript01 about how norfolf is pronounced (nor-'the f-word') is another odd transcript to include, i'm not really sure why that one is there. I'd still prefer to remove Transcript02 as that is a private conversation.

tapir: I made a proposal to handle these issues on the metadiscussion forum for even more public acknowledgement

12 Oct 2009

Reuven: Is there a way perhaps to display on a page the %%Subpages%% of another page?

PeterHB: Is the kind of change I've made to PracticalEndgameTests what you are thinking of?

Reuven: Ah it is, thanks! :) Is there any way to add a caption to it, perhaps? (Without using tables which I assume would be bad practice?) Since some problems are B to move, Some are W to move and goals vary I think it'd be nice to have them by the thumbnail, possibly with links to /attempts or /solution ^^*

PeterHB: There isn't a direct way with thumbnails, as far as I can tell. I had an experimental fiddle with tables, but didn't succeed well. I know Arno has a warning against mis-using tables on the tables template, but I suggest you have a go with tables and see if you can achieve what you want. SL supports experimenting. Just try to walk before running, i.e. don't make things too complicated too quickly, and stop if someone asks you to. By sensibly restricting your initial changes to 2 or 3 pages, the worst that should happen is preventing those modified pages from displaying in a web browser. The rest of SL will continue to work fine. If someone does ask you to refrain from playing with tables, leave a message here and the librarians or admins will clarify what is okay. I don't have enough experience with tables to be sure what problems can be caused, but I know we welcome efforts to improve the content on SL, and people learning by trying is okay. ( Examine Herman's example PracticalEndgameTests/Thumbnails1-50 )

24 September 2009

PeterHB: I've temporarily locked the page BigDoug. I think it should be left alone for a week or two, but that's just my opinion. If any librarian wants to unlock it, that's okay with me. I've locked it because I think an edit war centering around a wish to cast aspersions on someone is just not the core of what SL is about. I'm supportive of the attempts by Herman and tapir to prevent disparaging comments on an individual. I'm relaxed if any librarian wants to unlock it, as mine is only one point of view. I would like the subject to cool off. There is still the KGS Worst Admin page to allow people to air their opinions or campaign for changes, if required. Civility is part of SL in my opinion.

tapir: You recognized one of the edits (at KGS Admins /Complaints) was presumably BigDoug himself or someone else in defence of him? Just notice. I personally would not like to be defended that way. We really need not to be such panicky as today. However, there is nothing wrong in links to pages which are listed anyway under "referenced by". Btw. did you notice the bug which gave us both the same edit summary (or was it on purpose :).

If anyone likes to write something else on this page, please leave a note somewhere in SL.

Phelan: Well, not anywhere. Here would be a good place. Usually people leave a note on locked pages. Maybe we could put a notice pointing here?

unkx80: I actually have a good mind to lock both KGS Admins /Complaints and BigDoug, but decided to wait it out first.

xedover: I made a comment on one or more of those pages, but not in defense of BigDoug per se. I did not intend to get involved in an edit war, but my reply to a post on KGS Worst Admin was deleted, by the person who made the original post (on multiple pages).

PeterHB: Yes, I noticed the oddity where I got the same edit summary as you tapir. I actually didn't think I had edited the page, so I wasn't sure what happened. It may be a bug, or equally I may have saved an edit with no changes accidently.
I'm not wishing to defend BigDoug, as I don't know anything about him or his actions really. I'm just trying to hold a line that subtle ( or unsubtle ) digs at anyone is not what SL is for, liking peace, and yet also try to hold to the ideal of being anti-censorship. So a self-conflicting balancing act.

tapir: So all happiness now, the discussion is on KGSWishlist/Social anyway. Note: xedover's post shows a nice example of how bullying (backed up by executive power) works, I don't get how one can post it as answer to someone complaining (right or wrong doesn't matter) about bullying. PS We need a log of locked pages to not forget them.

PeterHB: There is already an automatic log. Look in the place where librarians can search flagged pages.

19 September 2009

IP adress posted three blank messages on the talk page of Sabaki How to Manage Weak Stones
PeterHB: Removed.

17 July 2009

Tapir: I started marking the editable but non-edited parts of the editable rgg faq for deletion, leaving the others. The bunch of RC entries is just to remind everyone (except certain organizers of the EGC) of the Frequently Asked Questions project. This may look silly since it's not contributing anything only markers and buttons, but it is raining outside and I can't leave my workplace.

28 June 2009

Phelan: Someone just added the following at the PagesForBeginners: "A Go summer camp in Fremont, CA, USA [ext] is a great place to improve fast." Is there a better place for Go camp announcements? There is a page for Go Workshops in europe. Maybe there could be a similar calendar for go camps, or maybe have a unified place for this kind of announcement?

tapir: The Go workshops page isn't the most popular place here - since contribution is lacking. The American Tournament Calendar was not very much used as well... so for practical purposes maybe the best way is a WorldGoWorkshopsCalendar?.

tapir: I need help here :)

29 April 2009

RueLue: Does anybody know, what happened to Dan Stromberg? I didn't see anything from him for long time now: page links are dead (e.g. those for Soksoo Database) - I hope, he not also. edit: i found his home page: [ext] so thankyou, he's alive.

22 April 2009

Arno: Rebuilt diagrams. Took longer than expected.

10 April 2009

Arno: I perform a system upgrade this weekend (Sunday or Monday.) SL will experience some downtime and may be unreachable for some hours.

On a side note: I will also fix bugs which have surfaced recently, e.g. t:1670, t:1784, t:1744, ...

4 April 2009

Only a few more hours left in the auction of my out-of-print go books. Bidding will end at 9pm Eastern Time (USA). See [ext] for details. - DrStraw

15 March 2009

Wiki vandal at work has vandalized many home pages. Home page Chipper?

PeterHB: tapir has fixed them all. Its just not obvious from 'RecentChanges', but is from 'FullRecentChanges'. The specific page Chipper has a word that will need to be removed, but it is probably too inflammatory to fix it at this time.

Phelan: Added ip to vandals page. If he/she vandalizes again take away editing rights.

7 March 2009

Phelan: Does anyone else feel like Breakfast's latest edits to Senseis seem mostly attempts to promote GoSensations?

Bill: Yup, ;)

25 January 2009

The "home page" RVB seems to be spam for a Polish cosmetics site. Delete?

Tapir: Yes. But I did it already. This guy in Poland is persistant... I don't know how many pages we deleted already. Or is this made automatically? PS Try to look at the old diff link, if you like to see the black brother of the white smiling stone :)

Phelan: Can't you block the links or his ip? I didn't see it, so I can't try myself.

Tapir: But you're librarian as well, aren't you? (Admin page)

Phelan:Oh, I meant I didn't see the polish guy's edits. Just saw that the ip is blocked. I usually added spam links to the text block as well.

dyoo: Does anyone know what's happening with Samarkand? They seem to have dropped most of their items off their web store. Are they ok?

16 January 2009

Tapir: Some noticed already, people not being recent change junkies may have not... there is a new Ongoing Game.

Herman: Yes, the black team could do with at least one more player. Unkx80, you game? :-)

11 January 2009

Phelan: GoClubsOnline's pagename seems to be too similar to OnlineGoClubs. It was linked from the Reference Section, along with a change of keywords. I can't seem to find a better place to link it from, or a pagename change that would make sense. Do we have a list of go related assistance sites? Edit:Another page that could be better named or linked to: How to host a go site

30 December 2008

All of this poster's postings are spam: [ext]

unkx80: You should raise it with Don, the administrator of GoDiscussions.

29 December 2008

Tapir: May someone check the mess i made out of Unsolved Template... Either it doesn't update the search results, or the search template is case sensitive, or worse it isn't found anymore. (I tried to add a search with lower case since i added unsolved tags with lower case and they didn't show up... no nothing works.)

Real time go server for nokia phone

eng60340 is there any online go server for nokia e71 ? i would assume that the japanese/koreans are already playing go on their mobile phones ? (Damn! i can edit word/excel documents, do gps navigation, surf most websites, watch youtube with this phone and yet i can't play online GO. =_= )

Somewhere in December 2008

Tapir: While editing the Great Wall I thought about inlining a Wikicommons Great Wall picture, but didn't manage to make a thumbnail version.

Herman: When you're at commons, for example [ext], right-click (not left-click) on the thumbnail and select "View Image". This will get you to a url that includes "120px" somewhere in it. Replace that 120px with the width you want the pic to be (I've used 300px on Great Wall now) and then use the resulting url in the picture template.

Tapir: Wow it works! Thank you very much. (Just tested a bit...) I changed the picture, hope this is ok. With a hint towards the difficulties in using the Great Wall.

Herman: That's OK, I pretty much just picked a random one, this one is nice :)

1 November 2008

Velobici: When trying to login to wBaduk this evening, the client software displays an error message Your ID is not registered!. The ID and the password are the ones that I always use and are saved by the client software. Its not a matter of mistyping either the username or the password. Anyone else able to login ?

PeterHB: For wBaduk issues, wBaduk / Status is always a good place to look.

2008 October 31

Happy Halloween!

Does anybody know what is up with I have not been able to access it for a couple of days, now. -- Bill

RobertJasiek: During the early hours of failure, it would show error messages about database failures. Then the page could not be reached at all.

Kirby: The database failure errors seem to be something rather common. I've experienced them periodically throughout the time I've used GD. With those, you typically just wait for about 5 minutes, and then things will start to work again. But now, something seems to be definitely wrong with the site, because I also have not been able to access GD at least since Wednesday... Maybe this will help my productivity to improve.

Bill: Maybe you will go up a stone. ;)

Kirby: I hope so. I really need to stop playing so stupidly.

Phelan: There's a discussion thread about the downtime in the page. Someone said the server is being rebuilt.

2008 October 28

Velobici: we have a bug in the search function for publisher...some pages have [publisher], some have publisher. As a result search finds one other the other. We need to change all the book pages to be the same.

Propose that we change all book pages to have [publisher] in the book template section.

axd: I was also struggling with the issue, as was Unkx80 I guess. I think it is better to focus on the search function: it should be made more intelligent, to find [<string>] as well when specifying <string>.

A second issue: maybe there is a risk to adding too much fields to templates, turning SL into a kind of database. Also, (eg) book pages are beginning to show duplicated information; is it the intention to keep a description paragraph that contains the same information that is present in the filled in template? Eg see Pure and Simple - Takao's Astute Use of Brute Force: the first paragraph is barely different from what is in the book template instance.

A third issue is the risk that the special search template will be added everywhere, thus increasing server load.

Velobici: The full repetition of information in both the book template and the first paragraph of the book description is excessive. Its historical, before we had the book template that information had to be in the description. Now we may wish to repeat only a few items: book name, author, publisher...perhaps another field or two or not.

Did not write the search function, so I can't comment on expanded it to cover both cases. Personally, would prefer to have the publisher listed in the book template as a link so that someone can immediately go to the publisher's page from the book template.

Don't know if any more fields are needed for the book template. We seen to have nearly all (all?) the interesting fields already in the template. Please compare Whole Board Thinking In Joseki with Pure and Simple - Takao's Astute Use of Brute Force. Very different approaches to repeating information.

fractic: Having a link to the publisher in all book pages seems like a good idea. How about changing the template to linkify automatically. We'd have to remove all the brackets in the book pages that currentely have them though.

Arno: I agree and think this is the proper way: add the link in the template itself, not in its value when calling. Or are there disadvantages to this approach?

axd: Meanwhile, anonymous removed the publisher link in many book pages, but apparently without updating the book template. Was this the intention?

Velobici: So let's update the template rather than dicuss updating the template :) ..... one minute later .... that was easy! .... note that some books will have two sets of square brackets around the publisher till we locate and fix them all.

axd: Be reassured that I did consider updating the template.

2008 September 23

Anonymous: There appears to be a new clock on the market: the Chronos GX. (There's a touch-version too.) Could someone with more knowledge on clocks and access to a real Chronos GX please add some info to the Clocks page detailing how the GX stacks up against the current benchmark: the Chronos II? axd: Add to that a good email address - last time I contacted them, I got no reply.

I'm in the market for a decent clock. As I live in South Africa, it is absolutely impossible for me to see the product before I place an order.

Pasky: We have trouble with someone repeatedly vandalizing ASRProvisoryLeague and ProvisoryASRLeague, e.g. [ext] and [ext] - is there any way to prevent this? We don't want to restrict editing only to registered users either... Maybe it would be possible to auto-ban IP that will remove all the content from the page? ;-)

Tapir: We (derplumps and I) merged the pages again and put a warning at the top. Anyone deleting the whole page / the list despite of this will be banned.

2008 September 22

Bob McGuigan: Wiki vandal at work on ShinFusekiPost and JaredBeck/GuestBook.>Oops. I posted this without looking at the actual pages. I see that they have been restored.

2008 September 17

Pete Schwamb?: I added to the GoServers page. The server is new and thus doesn't have many players yet, but I figure it deserves a mention. Can anyone recommend any other pages (here or elsewhere) that would benefit from the addition of a link to this new go server?

Herman Hiddema: First off, it would be good to expand the GoShrine page. Then, you might look at other servers like IGS and KGS, see where they are linked from (in the menu on the left, under "Referenced by"), and decide if any of those pages fit you. For example from there: GnuGo (mention that you can play against it on GoShrine). Preferably use internal links to GoShrine, allowing people their own decision if they want to visit from there.

2008 July 31

Bob McGuigan: I put Japanese terminology in the CJK box on Bent Four in the Corner and Comb Formation after seeing them listed on the page CJK Translation Missing but I can't figure out how to remove them from that list. It seems to be something to do with template usage that I don't understand.

Dieter: Not at all. It is the good old shift+F5 routine (depending on your machine). Flush the cache. Comb formation is still missing the Korean, which is why it remains listed.

Bob: Thanks, Dieter. It worked.

2008 July 27

Velobici: Could a list of book pages not using the Book Template be added to the Library work page ?

unkx80: I guess this would be a feature request for Arno.

PeterHB: I wonder whether the advanced find page could be modified to have templates and their fields in the select and excludes. Sounds like a lot of work, but might be a flexible answer. (Added first attempt at search results to bottom of Velobici home page.)

Velobici: Thank you, that was quick! Removed some non-book pages such as Isumi Shinichiro and moved the list to Library work.

2008 July 14

Velobici: Please review the pages for the first three volumes of the Elementary Go Series (In the Beginning, 38 Basic Joseki, Tesuji). Added sections entitled Reviews, Table of Contents, and Sample Prolbems.

Is this a useful format ?

Is it useful enough to extend to other books ?

PeterHB: My 2 cents. Looking at the specifics of the 3 example pages, this seems fine to me. Go ahead, if it feels right to you.

For the more general case of all the book listings on Sensei's, I think each case should be judged on its own merits. A cookie cutter approach is good for consistency and prompting ideas of what to include. We just want to be careful not to go too far. We want to encourage diverse reviews for instance. Too much standardization may discourage creativity. We want new people with new contributions.

2008 July 4

Velobici: Is there a way to add a table of contents based upon headers without a table of diagrams ? %% TOC %% provides both.

unkx80: Use %% TOC- %%

Velobici: worked beautifully

velobici: Should there be a template for pages about books. the template might have spots for

  • name
  • author
  • name in original language
  • publisher,
  • publication date,
  • ISBN,
  • is the book part of a series,
  • if so what series,
  • sample problems, (if its a problem book)
  • cover photo,
  • book review
  • etc.

unkx80: You can create one if you think it is useful...

Herman Hiddema: I've created one. I think some of the suggested items, like review and sample problems, are best left as normal page content. Tell me what you think!

Velobici: Wonderful...added/changed a couple items. Hope they are improvements. Your thoughts ?

Herman Hiddema: Yes, that is better. I've made another small change as well. Seems like quite a nice useful template now.

Velobici: Agreed! Please take a look at Immediately Helpful Vital Points of Life and Death. That page has three additional sections that might be useful.

2008 June 30

Someone deleted the entire contents of the sandbox. We lost all the greetings in different languages as well as instructions for use of the sandbox. Anyone want to revert it?

PeterHB: Not reverted, but pasted it back. Hope that is close enough to your wish.

2008 June 29

Please correct the formatting instructions displayed in edit mode. Example "!" does not produce a heading, rather "====" is required at the start and the end of the line. There may be other errors as well in the instructions.

2008 May 15

Disputed Game  

Black just took the ko in the lower left. White passed. Black passed.

Is the 2/1 point in the lower left neutral or is it territory?

The game rides on this point; if that point is neutral, black and white are tied.


Bill: It's worse than that. According to the Japanese '89 rules, black+circle is dead, because White to play could take and win the ko when the only ko threat is a pass. Black should reopen play. White can play first, and take the ko back, but Black can then win the ko fight.

Feylias: Just to be sure I understand, when White passed (forced, because recapture's not legal and any other move would cost a point), Black passed (assuming that the game could be safely ended by the double pass), but should have filled, because black+circle could be recaptured by White (if play resumed) and is therefore considered dead even though Black clearly has all the ko threats. Oy. Thank you very much.

Bill: The Japanese '49 rules mandated filling the ko, but were criticized for being ad hoc. The '89 rules get there in a more complicated way. Oy, as you say. ;)

BTW, doesn't Black win anyway? It looks to me like Black has captured 7 more stones than White.

2008 April 23

Check out this baduk ranking website...

2008 April 16

Do we need two pages for a single person ? Should Merlijn Kuin be an alias for Spirit or Spirit an alias for Merlijn Kuin ?

Spirit: one can redirect to the other. I don't really care myself :) But I have no time atm to figure out how to do this.

Herman Hiddema: The idea here is that one is a homepage, while the other is a Sensei's article. The first is someone's personal domain, they can put on it whatever they want and it can be considered rude if someone else drastically alters it. The second is an article by the Sensei's deshis. I've seen edits by roln111, which is the user account of Ilja Shikshin, or edits by breakfast, which is the user account of Alexandre Dinerchtein. There does not necessarily need to be an article as well as a homepage for everyone, but for European top players, I think it is a good idea.

Velobici: Which is the home page and which is the article ? How do we tell...the keyword tag may not be obvious enough to all. Please note that Ilja Shikshin is not a home page and roln111 does not exist at this time. breakfast is a home page with the alias Alexandre Dinerchtein.

2008 April 13

Please restore SomePhilosophicalQuestionsAboutComputersAndGo. There is a bug in GoWiki which has bit me twice now. To trigger the bug, do the following:

  1. view the Recent Changes page
  2. click on the link next to a page title that indicates the number of lines added or deleted
  3. click on edit block
  4. add text to the block
  5. click on ''Preview'
  6. click on Save

2008 March 29

axd: Dear admins, is there any chance to see normal heading tags to be implemented? (see rant)

This page is pruned in irregular intervals. See the page info and history for previous versions.

Message Board last edited by Unkx80 on October 1, 2016 - 10:31
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