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Problem solution ? [#3047]

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Timm: Problem solution ? (2014-07-28 23:47) [#10190]

Hi SL,

[Diagram]
Black to kill unconditionally  

A friend of mine has submitted me the following problem. It's supposed to be easy but there's a part we actually couldn't solve despite spending some time on it.

[Diagram]
Black to kill unconditionally  

This was the solution given for the problem.

[Diagram]
Black to kill unconditionally  

However, after this W2 we didn't manage to kill White unconditionally anymore. As compared with the diagram above, the absence of the a-b exchange gives White more possibilities.


Unfortunately this variation wasn't described in the solution. In the end we think there's an issue with the problem but we're probably wrong :-) there must be something we haven't seen and I'd be very glad if someone pointed it out.

Best,

Timm

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78.22.73.129: ((no subject)) (2014-07-29 00:14) [#10191]

If there is a black stone eg two below the bottom left black stone then black can still kill by pushing in and next Atari at the other side.

X
Timm: Re: ((no subject)) (2014-07-29 13:37) [#10192]
[Diagram]
Black to kill unconditionally  

This..?

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Dieter: answering timm (2014-07-29 13:45) [#10193]
[Diagram]
Dead  

Without the black+circle stone, Whhite can push through at a.

X
Timm: Re: answering timm (2014-07-29 15:14) [#10194]

Yes but this is a ko, isn't it ? The problem asks for an unconditional kill.

tapir: Re: answering timm (2014-07-29 15:19) [#10195]

No ko, imagine White "starting the ko", Black simply connecting B5. How many eyes does White have?

Timm: Re: answering timm (2014-07-29 16:35) [#10197]

Indeed ! I think that's what I was missing.

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Dieter: ((no subject)) (2014-07-29 16:27) [#10196]
[Diagram]
Missing stone  

In any case a stone is missing. After the more straightforward W2-B3, White can move out. There must be some defense for that marked stone. The option of moving out cannot be accepted in a common L&D problem.

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Timm: Re: ((no subject)) (2014-07-29 16:35) [#10198]

Probably so ; I'll check with my friend. Sorry if I made a mistake. Anyway, thanks all for your answers. Timm

 
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