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Can Black Kill? [#3077]

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216.125.49.252: Can Black Kill? (2014-10-30 20:58) [#10282]

What is the best possible outcome for Black?

[Diagram]
Black to Move  
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50.185.62.36: ((no subject)) (2014-10-31 19:17) [#10283]

I think the B 18 clamp kills

X
73.8.21.124: Re: ((no subject)) (2014-11-01 21:38) [#10285]

Thanks! I think you are right. I did not find that move in my actual game. -Dent

Timm: Re: ((no subject)) (2014-11-02 19:26) [#10286]
[Diagram]
End position  

What about this ?

216.125.49.252: Re: ((no subject)) (2014-11-03 23:45) [#10288]

This looks like white lives, but is 5 necessary to kill? If black connects in the corner with 5, can white make two eyes on the right? I would guess that maybe white 6 at 5 would then be alive?

In the actual game, I played 1 at 3 (hane) with the obvious response at 6, then 3 at either 4 or 5(?) I eventually killed but I am convinced white made mistakes. Both white and I were (are) low level players.

Dieter: Re: ((no subject)) (2014-11-04 11:40) [#10289]

I would guess that maybe white 6 at 5 would then be alive?

Dieter: I could answer this but I think it is better for you to read it out then make a firm statement.

Timm: Re: ((no subject)) (2014-11-05 13:05) [#10290]

What happens after White's descent is indeed a cool kyu-level problem.

[Diagram]
End position  

The first thing to note is that if Black saves his corner stones with B5, White will be able to live on the right.

[Diagram]
W6 @ circle  

More interesting is to note that even with W8, White doesn't have an eye in the corner yet : Black can fill with B9 at circle, then W10 captures and B11 can be at circle again.

[Diagram]
No eye yet  

Now Black threatens to play triangle and remove the eye in the corner (after White captures the two stones Black throws-in at triangle again and it's a false eye), therefore White must play at triangle herself to complete the eye in gote.

Thus to live she must first complete a first eye in sente on the right. I let you figure out if that's possible ;)


p.s. For B5, Black should also try the hane (at a in the second diagram). Always try the hane ! :p

73.8.21.124: Re: ((no subject)) (2014-11-06 06:51) [#10292]

Okay, I'll give it a shot...

[Diagram]
Sente  

I think this lives because if B2 connects at 'a', W3 at 'b' makes two eyes, one at E19 where black is eventually captured and one at F18. Black at b just loses the corner group and white must eventually capture the invading stones for a second eye.

[Diagram]
Can't prevent an eye on the right with 2 at 'b'  
[Diagram]
Can't Falsify F18 after 3 at 'b'  
Timm: Re: ((no subject)) (2014-11-06 15:56) [#10293]

Yep, that's what I read. :)

Now regarding the Hane following the proverb Hane, Cut, Placement, the hane is usually a working killing technique.

[Diagram]
The hane  

W2 lives, because White's able to make a second eye at either a or b.

[Diagram]
The hane  

Black can't play a


Finally, given that white's alive and the clamp is bound to be gote, I think that this is the correct endgame play.

[Diagram]
Endgame  

The area around a is gote for Black so White's likely to have to play there first. Then B5 allows to close off the middle without too much bad aji.

[Diagram]
Endgame  
[Diagram]
Endgame  

Without the marked exchange, White can create resist with W3 and W5 and create a lot of trouble...

 
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