Forum for Basic Instinct

anti-basic instinct [#1089]

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LukeNine45: anti-basic instinct (2007-08-02 21:24) [#3696]

15-25 kyu players at my club find this instinctive. Where is there an appropriate place to say how bad this is?

[Diagram]
Just. Don't.  

How can I help them unlearn this?

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Bill: Re: anti-basic instinct (2007-08-02 22:47) [#3702]
[Diagram]
Divide and conquer  

After W2, both Black stones are weak. White is strong.

You could also try a little tewari.

[Diagram]
Death wish  

If W1, would Black play B2? If the resulting position is bad for Black, so is the previous diagram.

LukeNine45: Re: anti-basic instinct (2007-08-02 23:51) [#3705]

Maybe I'll try tewari next time. I've been showing/playing the first diagram-- this is (one of the ways) I win 9 stone games. Thanks for responding!

Minue: Re: anti-basic instinct (2007-08-02 23:30) [#3703]

Part of reasons of those poor play is that these beginner players don't have "better idea". So, though explaining why such play is bad and vulgar is surely helpful but, often not sufficient.

some of recommendable ways to fix those vulgar moves is

1) to have them replay first 30~50 moves of several pro games, and discuss about the games with them.

2) to present several basic hoshi josekis and discuss about it with them. Using some basic josekis as teaching material of shape and Haengma is a commmon teaching method.

3) of course, to discuss(review) their own games, pointing their mistakes is also quite good.

Talking about the third way (review of their own games) a bit more,

Teaching these beginners is a very tough job. Not because they have little ideas of Go, but mainly because they have too much their own wrong ideas of Go. (As a human, no matter how weak they are, they must have some theories to guide their playes, consciously or subconsciously. without it, playing a game is not possible)

In 15kyu games, almost every move is a mistake (aroused from their own wrong Go theories)

The problem is, it's not practical, also not useful to try pointing out them all, and fix them.

So, My persional suggestion is to pick up just 3~5 (at most 7) short local sequences from a game which you want to point, and fix, and discuss about them .

I say again, at most...7 short local sequencs.

LukeNine45: Re: anti-basic instinct (2007-08-02 23:56) [#3706]

Thanks for your suggestions, they're very helpful.

This, in particular, may help me a lot:

Teaching these beginners is a very tough job. Not because they have little ideas of Go, but mainly because they have too much their own wrong ideas of Go. (As a human, no matter how weak they are, they must have some theories to guide their playes, consciously or subconsciously. without it, playing a game is not possible)

And, btw, the content you've added here has been very helpful to me!

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Dieter: ((no subject)) (2007-08-02 21:38) [#3697]
  1. Go is about healthy stones
  2. Stones' health is decided by liberties
  3. Groups survive thanks to eyes
  4. More groups is more work to make eyes
  5. Count the liberties of all the stones after W2
  6. Count the groups for each color after W2
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LukeNine45: Re: ((no subject)) (2007-08-02 21:41) [#3699]

I'll try that list, thanks.

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71.192.12.205: ((no subject)) (2007-08-02 21:39) [#3698]

Bob McGuigan: Maybe they have seen the nose tesuji someplace? This differs from the nose tesuji in that the white stones have relatively a lot of liberties so B1 does not cause a serious shortage of liberties in the white stones. In the case in your diagram B1 is contrary to the idea that your stones should work together and contrary to the idea that keeping your stones connected is important. The pages Cutting right through a knight's move is very big and split shape might also be relevant since White's next move can split the two black stones.

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LukeNine45: Re: ((no subject)) (2007-08-02 21:42) [#3700]

This has been my thinking almost exactly but I'm not getting through to them yet... :(

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Unkx80: Show them how ridiculous this can get (2007-08-02 21:47) [#3701]

Go to [ext] How To Play Go, Lesson 4, Section 4.5. Show them how ridiculous Diagram 4-17 (or some similar sequence) is. =)

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Unkx80: Magic of Go #250 (2007-08-03 19:28) [#3722]

I am not sure whether the material in [ext] Magic of Go #250 helps...

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LukeNine45: ((no subject)) (2007-08-03 23:05) [#3724]

Thanks, Unkx80.

I think maybe my expectations are just too high-- No matter how I explain it, it takes people a few times of me pointing this out before they realize they're doing it again...

 
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