Problem collections and copyright discussion


Chinese: 版权 bǎn quán
Japanese: 著作権 (chosakuken)
Korean: -

Discussion revived due to Charles' latest post on meta discussion. --Zook :

Charles A posting has just appeared, suggesting that the content of the web site at


consisting of classical life-and-death problems, be somehow transferred to SL, before that page goes offline shortly.

I have no reason to doubt that the posting was from the site's owner (though there is every reason to take some care over this point).

    • I am dajava ** "Hi, Charles. Yes, I posted the message."

I think the copyright situation, for what is a superficially attractive offer, is treacherous.

For example, the Igo Hatsuyoron problems there are (said to be) from the Yutopian edition: which because of the editing and removal of some deliberate 'false trails' in the original is quite probably not public domain.

    • I am dajava ** "Hi, Charles, I do not know how to post on SL.

Do you mean problems and answer in my hobby homepage, which I already removed, are from Yutopian? I do not have resources to check it up now. But, I guess not, with more than 90% probalities. Why did you get to have the idea? After reading some sentences several times, I got an idea that it is because I mentioned or recommended Yutopian edition in the sub page. I just try to offer good reading materials for the book when I mentioned the Yutopian edition." (by dajava)

"At the same time, it is possible that the Korean edition I used violated or caused copy right issue. (by dajava)

I had three different editions for the book. One,by Seo-Lim Publisher, must be a Korean translation of Janapnese on which Yutopian edition is based. The Korean edition had formal translation contract with Japanese Heibonsha edition.I cannot tell it for sure now. But, My memory must be correct with more than 90% probabilities. I did not use the book by Seo-Lim. I must have used HyunHyunKak? edition, which is very old and out of print. I wrote that I would use HyunHyunKak? edition for the homepage.

(by dajava)

I was never very happy with the Gokyo Shumyo Tsumego Series posted here, despite the strong defence made of the use made of the underlying classical collection. Anyone wishing to take up on this offer to copy material across to SL ought, in my view, to do some serious homework before posting it here.

SL Copyright / Discussion is now a rather long page so I may have missed some reference to it above, but how do people feel about the Kanazawa Tesuji Series in this context? It explicitly acknowledges the source. However, it seems an awfully complete rerendering of the material to be considered "fair use". --DaveSigaty

(content moved from SL Copyright / Discussion, hence references may appear awkward)

Dieter: There has been no reference. As the person who started and continues the series, I must of course defend its fairness, although you have a point. Two things.

Firstly, it is not at all an awfully complete rerendering of the material for the simple reason that I can't read Japanese. What I copy are the problem diagrams. They come from the GokyoShumyo, which should by now be common property - although I don't know this. Also copied are main lines is "by the author HashimotoUtaro", but this may be an overstatement of mine. In fact, those main lines may have become common property too. What I do not copy is the substantial amount of text and explanation accompanying the diagrams, which undoubtably cover many of the variations we posted ourselves here at SL.

In fact, it is almost as if the explicit references I make, turn it into abuse. If I had posted the problems and solutions without any further notice and the community had set about attempting and adding variations, it would be very hard for anyone to recognize Hashimoto's book. After all, the order in the GokyoShumyo is almost fixed. Changing the order would smell of dishonestly covering up the source

Secondly, I am of the school of thought "Let's post it and remove it if anyone complains". I know this is not the school of thought of our admins. I feel though, that this is the only way we can advance. We will run into complaints eventually and not because of our own abusive behaviour but because other people are not as willing to share knowledge as we are.

Charles Matthews The classic problem collections in their original editions are in the public domain, for reasons of age. That doesn't apply to more recent editions, and collections made from them. If this sort of material is posted, it would be much better done from the old editions. The same point occurs, for example, with old poetry.

ArnoHollosi: as Dieter points out, the problems are from GokyoShumyo which is in the public domain; text is not copied. So it's fine with me. If there are problems from newer collections we should be careful about how much of them is presented here. Board positions or moves may not be copyrightable (and I resent the very idea), but it would not really be nice (like in being a good netizen) to copy it in its entirety either. As Dieter points out, we (MortArno ;-) don't want to run into complaints. Violating laws or netiquette until someone complains doesn't sound like a good policy - I hope you agree, Dieter? Yes, eventually we cannot avoid complaints, but at least we tried to. I think our current SLCopyright policy is easy enough to understand and to follow.

Charles Matthews Are you sure that there have been no editorial changes? For example in the case of the Igo Hatsuyoron, which admittedly is a special case, the current modern edition had to correct many deliberate 'mistakes'. I think you'll find that intellectual property law may protect many things that some of us would not want protected.

    • I am dajava ** I am back after a cup of coffee. You have to blame Go Seigen bofore you blame me. If Yutopian edition is an English translation of Janapese Heibonsha edition with commentaries by Go Seigen, he himself adapoted others' works without references. The first probelm of the book is a very famous one in that its original answer was wrong. And Go Seigen is not the very person who corrected the answer. By the way, in my rememberances, he argued, in the epilog of the book, that the book was originally published in Ancient China and Japanese had stolen the credit for the book. Now, who do you want to blame first? (by dajava)

See Also:

Problem collections and copyright discussion last edited by hnishy on July 20, 2018 - 03:27
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