BQM 551

moved from Territory versus Influence Styles / Discussion

JohnAspinall: I'd really like to understand this stuff, and you've chosen a great example for greater scrutiny. I'm talking about Low Chinese vs High Chinese. Here are some questions that come to mind:

• Are territory and influence styles discrete choices, or is there a spectrum of styles where we label one end of the spectrum territory-oriented and the other end influence-oriented?
• Even if there is a spectrum between territory and influence styles, are intermediate styles worse than either pure version? Put another way, are territory and influence styles local maxima in whatever skill measurement?
• Considering the Chinese in particular, how is it that the placement of one line lower or higher flips the switch between styles? Is this a tipping point between two very different games?
• If the Chinese comes in low and high versions, why not SanRenSei?

"Low" almost-SanRenSei?  

What's wrong with this opening?

kokiri: the reason you don't really see this is probably to do with the reducing move at b. Given that the star point stones have weaknesses behind them at a white could invade at these points, giving black influence outside, and then looks too low to make use of it.

"Low" almost-SanRenSei?  

k. continued one can imagine this sort of thing, whereupon the circled black stone feels out of place.

Cheyenne: Right.. and I believe that this illustrates the point made that one should not try to mix territory style plays with influence style plays. The SanRenSei is an influence fuseki, while the play low play at (above) tries to take territory (my understanding is that in general 3rd line plays are more targeted towards establishing territory, while 4th line plays are more targeted towards establish influence).

Bill: It is important to note with this kind of argument, ...

SanRenSei  

that this is not so good for Black, either. In effect, Black has violated the dictum not to make territory from thickness.

When subsequent play is questionable, it is hard to blame earlier play.

Dieter: Actually, the san ren sei, low variant has been played in pro games. Moreover, the low move may even be better, according to circumstances. See go strategy, with the excerpts of Sonoda's book.