BQM 450

    Keywords: MiddleGame

I've been experimenting with Takemiya style in conjunction with some suggestions from Go Seigen about playing the san ren sei. I suck at this type of game, but I figure it's good to try new things. Here's a position from a recent game of mine:

diagram A  

It's black's move. BQM 450-A: What's best for black?

hhw: Maybe something like a? Expands your moyo and limits White's. Also may help set up a later move near b, to attack the lone White stone or give more options to the Black stone in the corner.

tapir: Hi Andy, you wrote moyo vs. moyo? Where is white's moyo? And isn't black ahead a thousand points? And... you really played the famous capping move?

xela: The area around b is a moyo. I don't see any black stones there.

Herman: I think b is a good move for black now. The white stone white+circle is somewhat isolated, and this move also threatens to pull out black+circle.

Dave: I think the first question is why not continue with the play at c? When White answers Black's probe in the lower right with the marked play white+square, she emphasises the outside. This looks like a mistake here because White will not be able to win with an outside game in this situation. Black c continues naturally, threatening to secure a territorial lead with no weak stones on the board. If White answers c with d, White is too thin on the outside to capture Black. White does not even have good prospects to make any significant territory while attacking Black.

diagram B  

I tried the rather nebulous-looking B1 and white replied with W2. BQM450-B: what next for black now?

To answer Tapir's questions:


Where is white's moyo?

When black played black+circle as a probe, white replied white+circle. This means black can live in the corner in this manner by setting up the tripod group, which I eventually did, but then white becomes strong in the center, even though her moyo is greatly irritated by the black+square stone.

tapir: I know (I hope:). But you won't play this sequence before reducing somewhat from the outside, won't you?

Andy: Right. This sequence didn't happen immediately.

the dead come to life!  

And isn't black ahead a thousand points?

Well, it's not so clear. I thought black had killed the upper left by forcing white into an L-group, but I overlooked this combination to connect out by white W1-W5 with a ko at circle. As it turned out, white managed to connect out and live successfully.

fractic Why did white+circle just appear out of nowhere?

Andy: Because I screwed up[100]

Not out of nowhere  

Dave: Note that W1 threatens to live at 4 next. If Black answers in the corner, the ko arises, no?

tapir: Isn't then B1 (next move) at B4 (in "the dead come to life!" diagram) or sth. to this effect - maybe not the biggest but a very big move. So black may play some reduction or so in the lower right and then come back and patch up here?

the dead come to life!  

fractic: No ko to connect out. W5 at B6 is no help for White. Of course White can turn the corner into a rectangular six in the corner now.

Kyu version of Takemiya style... Banzai!  

And... you really played the famous capping move?

Yes. The game started like this...


We continued like this until I chickened out and blocked on the wrong side at a instead of at b.

Embarrassingly enough, white connected out in the upper left, and I did a really poor job of stopping white's incursion into the top, and white got an enormous lower right middle to win by 35 points, hence my cry for help with this BQM!

tapir: The wrong side? Isn't the advice from Go Seigen to block on this side? (Sonoda Yuichi - in a somewhat resembling position (-> cap page) blocked at a as well.) As I've put together the page on the cap, I pretty happy to see this BQM. I hope for help on the cap page comes forward after this discussion :)

Andy: Now that I look it up, Go Seigen does indeed suggest blocking at a[101]. I only remembered the first few moves of Go Seigen's and figured I would wing it from there. :)


the dead come to life!  

For some reason I thought W1 needed to be answered.


Go Seigen likes this  

black+square occupies a good point

not so much  

"black+square is half-asleep, and this does not put Black in a good mood."*

Somehow, whenever I try to follow the advice of these 9+ dans, it always goes horribly wrong. The capping move seems designed to build a moyo based on the san ren sei, but then you're supposed let white wreck this concept by forcing white to extend from the corner straight into the san ren sei. What is up with that?

not so much  

Of course, Takemiya's move is not the capping move at a, but rather this B1. Maybe that's what I get for blending advice from two different 9+ dans. :/
Dave: I am not sure exactly what comments led to the belief that the san-ren-sei is about moyos. Below is the final position from game 3 of Takemiya's defense of the Honinbo title against Yamashiro in 1987. Show me the moyo here! :-) San-ren-sei as played by Takemiya was all about attacking flexibly. The frameworks (moyos) that he built early in the game were temporary structures that naturally disappeared in the later part of the game.

Andy: Thanks Dave! That has really changed my understanding of san-ren-sei! I don't know where I got that impression from either, but I appreciate having it dispelled. This opening is much more flexible than I thought. High Concept Opening Myth maybe?

tapir: Dave said it alright for Takemiya... but here the advice comes from Go Seigen, hearing this name I associate fast development etc. and not moyos at all. But who has his book with the chapter on the capping play?

42nd Honinbo Final Game 3 1987-06  

BQM 450 last edited by AndyPierce on January 10, 2009 - 06:00
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