Keywords: Ongoing game

ChessWhiz takes Black and 12 stones, but lavalyn gets Choice Go handicap - Black must offer two alternative moves every move, and White picks one for Black to play.

JoeSeki Could you do me a favor? When White plays, could you put some kind of mark on the black choices previously offered. sometimes you guys move so fast I miss the choices black offered. Perhaps leaving letters behind for the alternative. i.e. Black offers 2 x's, White chooses one of them and replaces the other x with a,b,c,d,e in its place, for each board that gets made. So the numbered board would have a (1 and a), (3 and b), (5 and c), (7 and d), and (9 and e). Make sense?

ChessWhiz: I thought about that, but here's the problem. What if I offer two moves, and lavalyn has me play one and takes the other? A point can't be marked with both a white stone and an letter.[1]

JoeSeki: Good point! But that just means we have a need for a new kind of stone! Can the Go diagrams read double characters to create a new lettered stone? I don't know, nor do I know where to ask this question and get a better answer.

ChessWhiz: Hmm, a lettered stone... sounds like a job for Arno or Morten. :-) I hope lavalyn and I can remember how the game went so we can go through it and add the letters from the beginning.

lavalyn - uh, NO. I have difficulty enough remembering what where your little x's are after I remove them, thank you.

ChessWhiz: Hey, I just had a brilliant flash of insight. SL saves every version of this page -- all we have to do is look at each version to see how the game went. Click the pagename link at the top to view previous versions. :-D

Arno: alternatively use boards with coordinates (add a 'c' after $$B or $$W) and name the point by its coordinates.
ad [1]: well, then name the point by its move number?

Current board position (latest move marked)  

Moves 1-10  

Moves 11-20  

lavalyn: W13 - Would have preferred something more solid, but the lone black escaping would devastate my position.

ChessWhiz: B14 - Take your pick, offense or defense?

lavalyn: W15 - I'll make you take the thank you move. Arigato!

ChessWhiz: B16 - This is weird. *grin*

lavalyn: W17 - The real pain in this handicap (for Black) is that both moves have to be approximately equal value - or else White will clearly prefer one over the other. Oh well, I'm happy to get a nearly living group against 12 stones.

ChessWhiz: B18 - I'd better play honte here! Not that I'm going to... :-P

lavalyn: W19 - Honte? Good luck! Complications galore, since I'll win most of them!

ChessWhiz: B20 - Your choice: boshi or cut?

Moves 21-30  

lavalyn: W21 - Make a fist before striking!

ChessWhiz: B26 - This is pathetic.

lavalyn: W27 - You're right.

ChessWhiz: B28 - What'dya say we just stop? This isn't turning out to be as fun as I imagined it to be. How about a game in which we both have Choice Go handicap? Or how about a real game of go?

Game paused and discussed at /Discussion

lavalyn: W29 - Game RESUMED.

ChessWhiz: B30 - I'd better play more defensively than I have been.

Moves 31-40  

lavalyn: W37 - Your opponent's good move is your good move!

JoeSeki A hint for white here. Start lots of fights which separate black into a bunch of groups. Choice go forces black to fight very poorly. Contact plays are a good idea to exploit the weakness of the choice go game black must play. Once you realize black can win no ko fights -- no matter what the size, you'll realize just how big an advantage you really have here.

ChessWhiz: B38 - Hey, no hints! I don't want any fights! :-P

lavalyn: W39 - A nice luxury. Such a high position will only make attacking it easier. In the meantime, time to build some sabaki to catch up on influence.

ChessWhiz: B40 - Your attachments are driving me crazy.

Moves 41-50  

lavalyn: W41 - Hane, Hane back!

ChessWhiz: B42 - Ok, here's your chance. Do you want to fight?

lavalyn: W43 - Not really. You can play as defensively as you want towards your own strength.

ChessWhiz: B44 - Defense is fine with me, given the circumstances.

lavalyn: W45 - If that's the way you like it...

ChessWhiz: B46 - Ugh, this is tough.

lavalyn: W47 - You got 12 stones for this handicap!! Don't complain!

ChessWhiz: B48 - After all, 12 isn't so much when it disappears like ice in the desert. :-)

lavalyn: W49 - The clamp is harmless against me in this position. :)

ChessWhiz: B50 - How harmless? I'm ready to find out.

Moves 51-60  

lavalyn: W51 - Don't you think your moves are rather small right now?

ChessWhiz: B52 - Yes, they are small, but they have a purpose!

lavalyn: W53 - If you say so - player who cannot win a ko unless I let them...

ChessWhiz: B54 - Hey, don't rub it in! I've made mistakes before.

lavalyn: W55 - Make sure i can get into the center with this group!

dnerra: I still think white should play a lot more aggressively, given he gets Choice Go Handicap. Instead of endlessly discussing this - how about trying it out on 9x9? I am willing to give 4 handicap stones in exchange. ChessWhiz, lavalyn, how about it?
ChessWhiz: Ok, dnerra, I'll up the anti. I offer to give you 5 (not 4) stones on a 9x9 in exchange for Choice Go capabilities. How about it? Or do you offer 6 stones? :-)
dnerra: Hmm, of course I'd prefer to play white, to prove my point... So I guess I have to offer 5 stones + 2 komi ;-)
ChessWhiz: Well... you may be white if I can have 5.5 reverse-komi (plus 5 handicap stones).
dnerra: Ok, let's start.

ChessWhiz: B56 - I like playing a quiet game. Keep it up, lavalyn! *grin*

lavalyn: W57 - Let's mix things up a little bit.

ChessWhiz: B58 - Noooo......... No fights! No fights!

lavalyn: W59 - Why not? I like fights!

ChessWhiz: B60 - Keep Out. Keepout. Keypout. Key Pout of my territory! ;-)

Moves 61-70  

lavalyn: W61 - Like you're really going to get that atari! I expected you to atari from both sides though.

ChessWhiz: B62 - I have to play very solidly here.

lavalyn: W63 - Unlike me - who doesn't.

ChessWhiz: B64 - So far, I feel I've done OK in preserving some of my 12-stone lead...

lavalyn: W65 - Now you feel how powerful this handicap can really be! Can't make the first desired move. Difficulty in fighting. Always forced to make the worse of two choices. Ow.

ChessWhiz: B66 - Yeah, ouch. But I don't always have to make the worse move... sometimes you're nice to me. :-)

lavalyn: W67 - Naturally, I'll keep things complicated.

ChessWhiz: B68 - Ok, I've changed my mind... I'll play even more defensively.

lavalyn: W69 - Muhaha!!!!!!

ChessWhiz: B70 - I need to seal up these holes as soon as possible.

Moves 71 - 80  

lavalyn: W71 - So complicated I don't know what I'm doing!

ChessWhiz: B72 - I do... you're playing ChoiceGo. ;-P

lavalyn: W73 - No, I'm typing at a keyboard.

ChessWhiz: B74 - Must... stay... connected.....

lavalyn: W75 - As you wish. Now, let's screw up ANOTHER area!

ChessWhiz: B76 - These wild attachments are crazy.

lavalyn: W77 - Well, of course they are.

ChessWhiz: B78 - I must retain at least some profit here.

lavalyn: W79 - Good luck with that!

ChessWhiz: B80 - Thanks, I'll need it.

Moves 81 - 90  

lavalyn: W81 - Taking your corner away. Gimme!

ChessWhiz: B82 - Making a valiant effort to fight back.

lavalyn: W83 - Your bamboo joint don't look like fighting back to me!

dnerra: Hey, a stone at a has disappeared!

lavalyn: You're right! How did that happen? Please remake move.

dnerra: Hah, you tricked him! You said "Taking your corner away", and instead took away another stone... :)

ChessWhiz: B84 - Whoa! I'm suprised nobody noticed. Thanks, dnerra! Even with that new stone, however, my move is the same.

lavalyn: W85 - Forcing through.

ChessWhiz: B86 - Giving way to my unstoppable opponent.

lavalyn: W87 - Unstoppable is right!

ChessWhiz: B88 - I'll do my best.

lavalyn: W89 - I want to see your plan to save the lower left.

ChessWhiz: B90 - Well, if I can't save it, I'm probably going to resign, so here goes nothing!

Moves 91-100  

lavalyn: W91 - A valiant effort. It's too bad Choice Go virtually guarantees the results of life and death.

ChessWhiz: Argh, that defense didn't work. Choice Go is getting pretty frustrating! Well, let's count the score -- (silent calculations) -- Oof, my lead is rapidly diminishing. With the lower left group dead, I think I'm too far gone to recover, especially with these crazy rules. One plan would be to attack and (try to) kill the marked stones, but with these crazy rules, it wouldn't even come close to working. So, in short: I resign.

By the way, I think you played more strongly than 12k this game. Maybe this (very) slow time control lets you think longer and therefore allows better moves. On the other hand, I did start out drastically behind at the beginning... Well, thanks for the game, and congratulations on your double-win between this game and ChessWhiz Against lavalyn!

lavalyn: Once again, arigato gozaimozushita! You should see me play at the board or at the mouse - depending on the network connection, I may be faster than the lag! Which is of course why I'm stuck wallowing at the strong double-digit kyus.

ChoiceGoGame1 last edited by MrTenuki on July 9, 2006 - 01:05
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