BQM 470

    Keywords: Opening, Joseki, Question
What next?  

tapir: Looks like facing-handicap-with-overplay-style. Or does this end even?

White establishes two groups  

tapir: Better B5 at W6?


unkx80: This is joseki. tapir: Ah, so my basic instinct B5 wasn't wrong. White played W8 at a, still joseki? Andy: Sort of. Wrong move order but can revert to joseki[1].


unkx80: Subsequently, if White a then Black b, and if White b then Black a.


unkx80: Example sequence.


unkx80: Whether this works depends on the larger picture.

tapir: Wow. Never thought that white ends with such a pathetic (still only 0,5 eye) shape. Larger picture most probably means the top right. Any examples from professional play or so?

more black on the left?  

Andy: Good question. When black attaches at B1, this choice of direction is presumably dictated by additional black strength around a, so black leans on white+circle, in order to ultimately attack white+square.


With this B5, black is apparently inconsistent with the idea of going after white+square, but black establishes a nice position on the top.

tricky joseki?  

According to 38 Basic Joseki, "There are some variations in which White plays (this way - see diagram), but let's leave those, which are a bit tricky". Apparently these "tricky" sequences are the ones in question in this BQM.

tapir: Indeed :)

diagram 8, p 183  

In this related sequence, white pushes once first with the W1/B2 exchange before dodging into the corner, intending to establish something on the top side. So, black intercepts with B4 and B6. White connects at W5 after B4, otherwise the W1/B2 exchange is bad. White has a burden on the right now.

not this way  

White doesn't want to connect here with W1 instead of protecting in the corner, because white loses the corner and black has even more influence towards the bottom than in other joseki sequences.



B7 is kikashi, encouraging W10 so black can end in sente.

mistake in move order. punish.  

Push in with B9. Lots of good moves for black now, including a and b, and not much attractive for white here.

tapir: Whose mistake in move order? Both players deviate from the other lines (this is quite similar to the game we played) - and why should this be bad for white? And is it really good for black? And if it is good, how good... Maybe one can compare with this joseki

unkx80: I would have thought that B11 at b is typically much larger than a as it helps Black to obtain a base...

See also:

BQM 470 last edited by Unkx80 on April 20, 2009 - 19:27
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