BQM 322

    Keywords: Question

Gresil 10 kyu: I just ran into this as white.

Almost familiar  

I couldn't remember seeing B4 before but it seemed sensible. After the game I looked it up, but it isn't mentioned here or in Kogo's as joseki. There must be a reason for that, but I can't read anything blatantly exploitable in it. Can white benefit here?

For what it's worth, the game continued thusly (B10 tenuki) with the ladder good for white:

When in doubt, atari  

Andy Pierce: As white I'd worry that I've given black secure territory in the corner and a ladder breaker somewhere else.


Andrew Grant: W5 and W7 leave Black with an empty triangle.

Andy Pierce: In the joseki, black plays B4 at W5. If black was supposed to play there but doesn't, that might suggest it is a good point for white to take instead (as in this diagram).


If White plays W5 here, she can play W7 which still forces B8, then there's no ladder to worry about.

Alex: Yeah, but Black a is painful. I prefer the previous diagram, which is what I would have suggested.

unkx80: A small side note. In this diagram, I would play B8 at b, which lessens the effects of a White move at d later. The reason is that W7 makes c somewhat less urgent, since if White already played at c, White will not play at W7.

Bill: I would play B8 at W9.


unkx80: I don't like this W5 too, because it entails a local loss for White. But if W5 is played, usually W7 is played here without any exchanges as shown in the previous diagrams. Then if Black a, then White b, and White should be happy if Black wants to continue crawling on the second line. Alternatively, White b may be played at c.

Solid connection  

Bill: The solid connection, W1, threatens the black+circle stones, and is sente. Now White has various options. (But the sacrifice of the white+circle stone is still normally inferior.)

Charles Normally the Andrew Grant line makes no sense for Black.

Tewari no-no  

The reason being that you are not going to be able to apologise enough for black+circle, in any tewari you ever do. It almost always will look worse than white+circle.


I mean, this is joseki.

Crack of light  

If Black's idea is to attack with B1 now, or at another circled point, well, yes, there is some point. White usually has some sort of sabaki, starting at a. That has gone AWOL here.


If the left side is really that important, White might want to dance away with W7, or some other light play.

erislover: Isn't the question basically a transposition of a kitani joseki? 3-4 high approach thrust...

BQM 322 last edited by Dieter on July 5, 2008 - 12:48
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