# Noseki 5

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Keywords: Joseki
Non-joseki

Alex: This move is not joseki, but seen quite often in amateur play, especially at the 10-20 kyu level. It seems intuitive to beginners that it attacks while building influence on the left, but it is not so good. I have no time now, but I'll come back and write a bit about what's wrong with it soon. In the meantime, others should feel free to start up a discussion.

unkx80: See Tricks In Joseki for some discussion on this.

Non-joseki (i)

Bill: There seems to be nothing theoretically wrong with . However, there are tactical problems. After , Ba looks natural, but fails tactically [1]. Bb is a solid response, but plainly leaves misplaced. So I am wondering about . Things are complicated, but at least it is consistent. ;-)

Non-joseki (ii)

Bill: Hmmm. How about ? and seem forced. Through isn't this fairly even?

BramGo I wonder what has to offer that a plain doesn't have? In my opinion has little or no constructive advantage for black, but does help white.

Non-joseki (iia)

Bill: But then after Black has nothing better than . (If Black takes the ko, White plays .) Through maybe White has a slight advantage.

nachtrabe: If were already in place before playing the knight's move, and this sequence were followed given B sente at the end instead of having to play , would it be roughly even in your estimation?

Tewari (rough)

Bill: Doing a rough tewari, and keeping in mind that White has a stone at , which adds a couple of points in favor of White, and considering that Black has an extra stone, this looks pretty equitable to me.

Second thoughts

Bill: On second thought, simply filling with looks fine. The stone, while inefficient, is a definite plus value, not to mention Black's captured stone.

[1] Are you REALLY sure about that? ~srn347

Quite sure. This line is discussed in Tricks in Joseki.

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Noseki 5 last edited by JoelR on January 5, 2010 - 17:44