Noseki 5

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    Keywords: Joseki

Alex: This move is not joseki, but seen quite often in amateur play, especially at the 10-20 kyu level. It seems intuitive to beginners that it attacks W1 while building influence on the left, but it is not so good. I have no time now, but I'll come back and write a bit about what's wrong with it soon. In the meantime, others should feel free to start up a discussion.

unkx80: See Tricks In Joseki for some discussion on this.

Non-joseki (i)  

Bill: There seems to be nothing theoretically wrong with B2. However, there are tactical problems. After W3, Ba looks natural, but fails tactically [1]. Bb is a solid response, but plainly leaves B2 misplaced. So I am wondering about B4. Things are complicated, but at least it is consistent. ;-)

Non-joseki (ii)  

Bill: Hmmm. How about B4? W5 and B6 seem forced. Through B8 isn't this fairly even?

BramGo I wonder what B4 has to offer that a plain B5 doesn't have? In my opinion B4 has little or no constructive advantage for black, but does help white.

Non-joseki (iia)  

Bill: But then after W1 Black has nothing better than B2. (If Black takes the ko, White plays W2.) Through B6 maybe White has a slight advantage.

nachtrabe: If B6 were already in place before playing the knight's move, and this sequence were followed given B sente at the end instead of having to play B6, would it be roughly even in your estimation?

Tewari (rough)  

Bill: Doing a rough tewari, and keeping in mind that White has a stone at circle, which adds a couple of points in favor of White, and considering that Black has an extra stone, this looks pretty equitable to me.

Second thoughts  

Bill: On second thought, simply filling with W1 looks fine. The white+circle stone, while inefficient, is a definite plus value, not to mention Black's captured stone.

[1] Are you REALLY sure about that? ~srn347

Quite sure. This line is discussed in Tricks in Joseki.

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Noseki 5 last edited by JoelR on January 5, 2010 - 17:44
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