Guksu 2005 Game 3


Black: Choi CheolHan
White: Lee ChangHo

Moves 1 to 10  

Dieter: I wanted to use this game to discuss the concept of thickness. The choice is arbitrary, except for it being of Korean kin. Feel free to make it a full comment though.

Moves 11 to 20  

White has a strong position at the bottom, although it would be completely thick (but maybe overconcentrated) with a move at a. Black has a defect at b (although not readily exploitable).

Moves 21 to 30  

Dieter: Some people may be wary of playing B3 with black+circle around, for fear of playing too low. B7 relieves that feeling.

W6 creates more influence and strength for the bottom. Isn't B9 too close to thickness? Too close to a stable position? Is White's top thick or just stable?

Corentin: this game was audio-commented up to move 72 by Jiang Mingjiu Chinese 9p on Sunday Feb 20, 2005 in KGS (room>lesson>Ing's Goe Internet Class). Scribe wrote down the professional's main points. (URL to game record with comments appears on Scribe's page.) He spent about 50 minutes on this game, of which at least 30 minutes were on the fuseki. I don't remember any comments being made on this move B9, but my memory is slack... As for the 'overconcentrated move B9' (see 2 diagrams below), although someone asked why it was played, he didn't comment it. He gave some variations (unacceptable for either W or B) of the fight that starts with B52 (see 3 diagrams below, move B3).

Alex Weldon: Given than White invades the shimari with W2 in the next diagram, perhaps B9 was played in anticipation of this, allowing B to respond at B3 in the next diagram. It also has the double purpose of aiming at B1 and B5 in the next diagram to flatten out White's position and reduce her thickness. It still looks overconcentrated to me and I wouldn't have thought of playing it, but it does at least seem to be a multipurpose play.

Moves 31 to 40  
Moves 41 to 50  

Dieter: B9 feels terribly overconcentrated. No doubt that Black is thick.

Moves 51 to 60  

Dieter: B3 seems to violate all principles about thickness and makes territory with it. Shouldn't White have played lightly with W4 at a? Or is she right in leaning against Black's strength?

Alex Weldon: Hmm, my way of looking at it is that B3 is making territory while attacking, which is not nearly as bad as using thickness to make territory directly. Black is fairly strong on both sides, so he isn't really violating the principle of attacking from the weaker side, and territory made on either side would be close to thickness. I suppose that when one is thick on both sides, the normal way to attack is some sort of capping play, but I guess Black read out here that he couldn't kill or gain enough profit like that. Also, since the resulting sequence builds up power facing the lower side (which you later refer to as "central potential" rather than thickness) as well as territory, Black may already be planning his later sequence beginning at move 113.

Moves 61 to 70  
Moves 71 to 80  
Moves 81 to 90  
Moves 91 to 100  

Dieter: W0 may be an overplay. Is White looking for added strength?

Moves 101 to 110  
Moves 111 to 120  

Dieter: With B3, Black finally attacks White's position, formerly known as thick. Black doesn't seem to use thickness to attack but rather the central potential.

Moves 121 to 130  
Moves 131 to 140  
Moves 141 to 150  

Dieter: The Koreans have turned 19x19 into small board Go.

Moves 151 to 151  

Guksu 2005 Game 3 last edited by hyperpapeterie on July 28, 2006 - 17:41
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