Go Suite/ Discussion

Sub-page of GoSuite

weiland?: [ext] http://www.devbuzz.com/pg/7467882.asp and [ext] http://www.mobiletopsoft.com/pocket-pc/download-gosuite-0-99.html

schulzki?: @weiland - Where did you see the 0.99 version? can you provide a link?

weiland?:Where can I obtain the latest version? I found 0.91 for free and 0.99 for $5. Is GoSuite commercial now?

Pyaeen?: Will it be native support Window Mobile 5.0? After install any IME into English WM5, Go Suite crash. Or anyone can help?

MatrixAce?: Pyaeen, have you tried changing the regional setting back to English (United State)? I'm running on IPAQ 6818 (Win Mobile 5.0) and have chinese IME installed. =) Changed from Chinese (Republic of China) to English (United State) works like a charm =)

Deshi Comments

schulzki? I did some few modifications on GoSuite so that now it is possible to play against GTP Engines (as GnuGo) that are running on a remote PC. A little bit less mobile, but much faster, and more recent engines available ;-). The modified GoSuite and everything else needed is released on [ext] http://mitglied.lycos.de/remotegnugo/

AshleyF: Just gave it a try. This is super cool!

Juan: Just a quick note to congratulate you for such great software. The Comment Cleanup is plain awesome. I love it! Thanks!!

Malweth Thanks for this program! Just got my Axim X30 high for Christmas (writing this on it). I haven't had a lot of time to use Suite yet, but so far it's great! I'm looking forward to new features - especially IGS and subdirectory support! Till then I'll be looking at some Takemiya and Go Seigen with the guess the move feature... Thanks again!

Deshi Questions

Malweth: What time frame are you looking at for an IGS client? I'm looking into geting a Dell X30 (with 802.11b) and am very interested in using it to play online (since I want to be with my wife after work, not holed up on my desktop ;). I'm sure it's not a small task, but have you started designing it?

AshleyF: Funny you should ask :-). I just started on an IGS client for Smartphone a couple of weeks ago (so far can sign in, list games, and observe). If successful I may port to Pocket PC.

Anon: Question: Does the program GoSuite support the new 640x480 resolution display PDAs (for example the Asus MyPal? 730) ?

AshleyF: Nope, sorry it doesn't yet. It wouldn't be difficult but also not completely easy: The board control uses image resources rendered at various sizes on a desktop machine. I'd have to render at a bunch of new sizes not needed for 240 pixel wide display (96, 80, 68, 60, 53, 43, 36, 32, 28, 26, and 25-pixel). Already there's 450KB of embeded resources in GoSuite! I'd probably want to make a separate build for WM Second Edition devices. I'll add it to my list but to be honest, I probably won't get to it for a while.

Anon: Thanks for your answer Ashley. Well bad luck, I've just ordered a high res PDA today :(

AshleyF: Sorry. However, I did just verify in an emulator that it at least works - but it's pixel-doubled (except for text which looks nice and crisp).

It's funny to me to see Pocket PCs becoming more like small tablets and meanwhile a line of small Tablet PCs becoming more like Pocket PCs. The price diff is only about $500 right now. I bet they'll converge within a few years. Tablets will always exist, but Pocket PCs may be replaced by handheld Tablet devices running regular Windows! I'm just guessing. That'll be cool though. Then you can run SmartGo or some such truely-full-featured SGF software. I'd personally rather not enter the fray with GoSuite as a desktop app. Maybe I'll retreat to smaller devices - Smartphone?! :-)

Anon: Does it look good with the pixel doubling mode? Side note: My device was lost during shipping...or maybe stolen :)

AshleyF: It's hard to tell. The emulator screen is huge on a desktop display. I assume the high-res Pocket PC screens are still about the same physical size but with 480 pixels wide squeezed into that (rather than 240). In that case I'd guess that GoSuite looks about like it does on a regular Pocket PC - but only half as good as it could look.

Pimenta: Hi. I'm considering the purchase of a Pocket PC, and 99% of the motive is to use your Go Apps. I'm already a fan without even trying them out! ;-) I'll probably buy a VGA model. In light of the above discussion, and keeping in mind that I'm not a programmer, I'd gladly help out with the rendering of the graphic resources, if this is something "easy to outsource".

AshleyF: Oh, the pressure :-) People spending $100s on a new device just to run my little apps?! Hope you enjoy them! Also, thanks very much for the offer to help with graphics! Sorry though, I actually have a 'StoneGen?' tool already that with just a click will render the stones at whatever sizes I want. The main problem is that I don't want to bloat the exe with so many more image resources (and the graphics APIs on the device itself are too limited). I'd want to make a separate build for VGA, etc. I'm sort of hoping instead to find some better graphics library (maybe [ext] http://www.xrossone.com/). Maybe when I get a VGA device myself I'll want it badly enough to put some hours into it... :-) I am working on a separate project (an IGS client for Smartphone) for which I could probably use some help from a real graphic artist. I'm thinking of a somewhat less 'serious-looking' UI maybe with some 'anime-ish' icons, etc. I'm still working on the basic functionaliry but I'll keep you in mind once it gets further along... Thanks again!

Pimenta: Sorry, but I'm also not a graphic artist! I'm closer to a programmer, since I work as an engineer. I'll keep checking for an eventual VGA version, in case the pressure keeps mounting. ;-) In the meantime I still have to commit to choosing and buying the damn thing! BTW, personally, I find your current design excellent, beatiful and very simple. Good luck with all those developments.

Rellik: How to pass on a game agains the computer in version 0.7 dev?

AshleyF: Yeah, the toolbar's a little non-intuitive. The buttons left-to-right are Undo (not yet implemented), Ideas, Score, Pass (little white flag)

Rellik: Will you implement a KGS client in future releases? Or only IGS?

AshleyF: Only IGS (and NNGS, etc.). I wish I could make a KGS client but the protocol is closed. I could hack it or use the KgsGtp proxy (play as a robot) but I'm quite sure wms really doens't want people doing that. There was at one time a J2ME KGS client for Java phones. I'd love to see that revived.

maruseru: There's a perl module distribution (KGS, on CPAN) whose author has partially reverse engineered the KGS protocol. See [ext] http://search.cpan.org/src/MLEHMANN/KGS-0.99/doc/protocol.html . Yes, wms probably won't like it, and it's too bad that KGS isn't open source. Check out UltimateGoServer - only an idea so far, but we gotta start somewhere. And the plan is to make it open source, and have an open protocol.

Mcgreag?: I tested this program to record the games I played in a tournament this weekend (have earlier used Pocket Go). I found it to be a very good program but there are some small features that I miss.
First them going thought the game later I miss being able to use the jog keys to move back and forward. I assume it's very nice to have them hopp between variations when browsing Kogo's joseki lib but when just going through a game it's not so useful, perhaps an option to change the behavior to the one that you prefer.

AshleyF: Do you mean that on your device you have no left/right jog dial? I think that some older devices have a little scroll wheel on the side instead of a full up/down/left/right/enter jog dial. GoSuite uses Up/Down to navigate variations and Left/Right to step next/prev. If you have no Left/Right hardware keys then that's a pain. I could make hardware key mappings a preference if that's the case...

Mcgreag?: Yep no left/right at all (but for some strange reason I got 2 up and down, left and right side for left handed people I guess)

Second is the scoring, one nice thing about using Pocket Go was that you could easily score the game there to double check the handscoring, but using GnuGo for this is not really an option as it adds it's own moves that might or might not change the score and on my old device it takes several minutes to score the game. It would be very good if you added an option to mark stones as dead and score from that (similar to how CGoban2 or Pocket Go does it).

AshleyF: Yep, that's on the TODO list.

Third is to implement the undo button but I see that is on the todo list.

AshleyF: There is an Undo button while playing the computer (takes back your's and computer's last move). While editing a game record you can, of course, choose Edit > Delete to remove a node. If you simply misplace a stone, you can just drag it to where it belongs. I'm not actually planning to add a Delete (or 'Undo') button to the main toolbar (no room without removing something else). Other than two taps instead of one, is there a feature you're thinking of that's missing? Some day (long way off) I may make the toolbar customizable so you can make whatever you personally use most one tap away.

Mcgreag?: I know about the menu option, 3 taps actually (edit > delete node > yes) and it's a bit too much but the stone dragging I didn't know of, it sounds very good, need to try it.

Pimenta: How easy/hard would it be to compile your apps (GoSuite & GoAlbum) to other platforms (e.g. PalmOS)?

AshleyF: It's written in managed code (C#) and relies heavily on the .NET Compact Framework. Works fine on platforms such as Pocket PC, Smartphone, and Windows desktop machines (though not released for desktop). With some work, it could even run under Linux or OS X (check out [ext] mono) but sorry, no plans for PalmOS.

Rellik: Will there be a new version in the near future (maybe XMas)? You have written on 19 JUL 2005 of a new version with GNuGO Resign feature and also had some other nice ideas. Or is the project dead?

AshleyF: The project's certainly not dead, but I've been quite busy lately. I don't think I'll have anything new for at least a few months.

BTW, on another note, I gave the source to Sid Liu (the guy who ported GNU Go to Windows Mobile) and he and Mike Zhang have been playing around with it. It's under the "Pocket GNU Go" project, but it's GoSuite source code: [ext] http://sourceforge.net/projects/pocketgnugo/ Hopefully some day there will be a few people working on it and it can make progress even when I don't have time...

Sky?: In various Q&As of this page "next version" is mentioned. As of Feb 07 the recent version seems to be 0.91. Is there any new version comming, e.g. including the independend scoring?

Feature Ideas

schulzki?: I would love to play against an engine running on my PC. I would either need to choose the local programm to be started (currently it is always GnuGoCE) so I can run a proxy or - even better - set IP and Port of a socket which than is used for the GTP. I saw that a port is defined in the preferences file, I guess it is used for GTP communication with the local engine. If I could just add an IP attribute here, wich, if set, is used instead of the local engine, it would be perfect! Thanks!

Sprang: Will there be a release for Windows Mobile 5.0 any time soon? I think I'm experiencing similar problems (network socket-related?) as other users when trying to use any of the Computer (GNUGo) features. Thanks!

AshleyF: I want to eventually integrate the problem solving and tagging system from Go Album into it and add major new features such as a Joseki/Fuseki browser (you can browse KJD for now), an IGS client, a port to Smartphone, and many other things.

Vadim Balashoff?: About calculating the final score. Programm MultiGo (for example) calculates final score in semi-automatic mode, when you choose which group is dead. Can you add to your programm semi-automatic calculation of score?

AshleyF: Yeah, I plan to do that. For now the score is purely calculated by Pocket GNU Go.

Malweth: (Not sure if a bug, but it's annoying to me ;) When reviewing a game and attempting to guess the next move, I sometimes hit a preexisting stone and jump back in the game... in terms of corner fights, this could be anywhere from a recent move to the beginning of the game. Perhaps an option to disable this feature for "quiz" mode would work? Thanks!

AshleyF: Good idea - no nav back by tapping stones when in 'guess next' mode. Next release.

Chris: The only thing that springs to mind is if the program could identify things like e5 and t15 in the comments as points on board and highlight them if tapped upon in the comments. Honestly, I'm not really sure that it is worth the bother. It is just that I am studying this game that is commented in the "white e7"-style and it is hard on my poor eyes trying to figure out where exactly e7 is on the board. It would take some fuzzy passing of comments and might not be such a good idea.

AshleyF: This is a great idea! It's implemented now in the current build. I hate browsing games with comments referring to things as 'e5', 'c16', etc. I'm experimenting with a feature that will allow a 'Comment Cleanup' display mode. Without modifying the game record, it will convert point references in the comments to refer to labels on the board. If the point is occupied, then it will label the stone with the move number and refer to it as 'B17', 'W23', etc. If it happens to be a setup/handicap stone then it will mark it and refer to it as 'the marked black/white stone'. If it's an empty point, then a label will be displayed at that location on the board and the comment will refer to it simply as 'A', 'B', 'C', ... The ambiguous case is a comment like 'B13' - does that mean the coordinate or black's 13th play? I will assume the coordinate. It's only an issue for the first 19 plays (and only black ones at that).

Juan: Ashley, is it possible to remember the last folder that Go Suite opened? I have a large collection of games (over 20k) divided in many folders, and regretfully Go Suite tries to list all the files each time, which takes a long time. If it could remember the last folder that I last used (say "Lee Chang Ho Games", then it could list only the files present in that folder, instead of everything under "my documents". Again, Thanks for a great program!

AshleyF: That's an easy one. Done for next release. Open/save dialogs' initial directory is now set to the last directory you opened from/saved to.

I'll work on making .sgf association an option. I don't want it to be set upon installation in case some people would rather it be associated with PocketGo?, etc.

IlyaM: Thanks a lot for GoSuite. Couple suggestions: 1) can GoSuite show game result in addition to event information when opening a game? 2) It would be nice to have some indication of number of captured stones.

AshleyF: Yep, it tracks capture count internally of course but doesn't display anywhere. I'll remedy that.

As for game result, for some reason I wanted to keep it 'suspenseful' :-) so it only shows the result on the final node. I'll make it display on the first node as well. Otherwise, you'd have to Edit>Game Info to see it.

kester: Firstly, thanks for the great app - it certainly stands ahead of the others I've tried.

Secondly (a small thing), can you let it allow negative komi?

AshleyF: Dang, that's a silly bug :-) It fails validation as soon as you type the '-'. I'll fix it. Here's a workaround though: Enter the number first then add the negative sign.

cpchen?:Thanks for providing the GoSuite. It's easy to use, however, the fontsize is a little small to me. Can it be adjusted by user?

ummm... I'm new here but when I was trying to download GoSuite, I was asked to input username and password. Can somebody tell me how to pass it? I want GoSuite very much so that I even bought new smartphone with Windows Mobile 2003 as its OS. Or maybe can anybody send me the application? Thank you very much

Rellik There seems to be something wrong with the website of AshleyF. Wait a few days. If it didn't work the, I can send the programm to you.

Incarlight: I can also help if anyone is in need of GoSuite. I have the ARM version, ARMV4 version, MIPS version and SH3 version (as a PocketPC newbie I downloaded all versions, just in case).

AshleyF: Sorry guys. My ISP is having some trouble.

juujikage? It's too bad, hope the web would be repaired soon. By the way, Rellik could you please send me the Gosuite program to my mail in f4t3d2003@yahoo.com? Can't wait to play go in my phone ^^. Millions of thanks to Ashley and Rellik.

juujikage? Why haven't you send me the program, Rellik? >< Could any other please send me the program? Anybody? I'd appreciate it very much. Thank you.

Rellik: Sorry I don't look every day in Senseis. The Mail is on the way.

juujikage?: Oh I see, sorry for being such impatient. Thanks for the file, I've received it, but I can't install it in my smartphone. My smartphone is O2 XphoneII, and I guess it's not using ARM processor, so it won't work. Or maybe I did wrong installing? Could anybody explain?

Rellik: Your XDA II has an XScale processor. This means you need the armv4 version of the program. I havn't that version in my archive. You must wait till the Site from AshleyF is up again.

juujikage?: I see, thank you very much Rellik.

AshleyF: Hosting is back. Sorry.

juujikage?: Yes, I realized about it and had downloaded the file. It is AWESOME! I've been wanting of playing go records in my phone over months. Thank you very much for Ashley, Rellik and Michael. You all have been very helping me ^ ^. GBU

xas?: I owe a Toshiba e800 with SE_VGA. So my screen run in true 640x480 pixels. GoSuite doesn't use the all size, and the "X" button, to close the application, can't be "touched". If you can add a 'Quit' in the File menu. If you need beta-tester for try a true 640x480, I'm your man !

CoreyH?: Two suggestions. 1) Update GoSuite to use GetFile? dll for the file chooser dialog (helpful for those of us who have a large number of sgf files). 2) Allow GoSuite to be associated to "*.sgf" files as the default Application. Thanks for an excellent program!

Malweth: Here are a few new suggestions: 1) Have the file save dialog remember the last saved location (if it still exists) - this will make entering multiple game records or problems easier. 2) Implement a scoring feature similar to how cgoban or multigo does it - it would be very useful when reaching the end of a game (during club play) to be able to score it using the ppc.

ThomasJ?: Would be nice to enable Go Suite to start by tapping a go game record in sgf format and load it (this feature is for instance implemented in PocketGo?), so that I can just click on a game record and get to Go Suite and displayed instantly the Go Game. With according Registry entries I have now managed to get Go Suite started; unfortunately he game is not loaded as Go Suite obviously doesn't parse the start parameters.


Yossi?: Thanks for this amazing suite. I installed it (0.91) on the memory card of my FS Loox560 (vga). The Play Computer... seems to work fine. When trying the New... I get an error: " Invalid score value '<Score> ". I tried to install it on the device memory having the same problem. Any idea? Thanks.

Serge Terekhoff?: Thank you for the GoSuite. I've tried to play with GnuGoCE, and the machine is seemed unable to continue from this position (black, machine to go):

(;GM[][1]CA[][UTF-8]FF[][4]AP[Go Suite:0.91]SZ[19]PB[GnuGoCE]BR[9k]PW[Serge]WR[1147] KM[6.5] ;B[pd];W[cc];B[dp];W[pp];B[qn];W[pk];B[on];W[np];B[rp];W[qq];B[rk];W[fq];B[fd];W[df] ;B[cn];W[fo];B[lq];W[jq];B[lo];W[kp];B[nr];W[lp];B[pr];W[rq];B[kr];W[mq];B[mr];W[ls] ;B[lr];W[jr];B[ks];W[qr];B[ps];W[ms];B[oq];W[op];B[ck];W[dr];B[ch];W[ff];B[ic];W[nc] ;B[qf];W[ne];B[qi];W[pm];B[pn];W[pi];B[rn];W[qc];B[ph];W[oi];B[lc];W[le];B[of];W[mh] ;B[pc];W[pb];B[ob];W[rb];B[nb];W[mc];B[pa];W[qa];B[qb];W[cq];B[ra];W[fb];B[kd];W[ke] ;B[mb];W[ld];B[kc];W[gd];B[jn];W[io];B[bf];W[ce];B[gc];W[fc];B[ge];W[ed];B[hd];W[gf] ;B[lm];W[kk];B[mk];W[mj];B[jl];W[jk];B[gm];W[gk];B[mo];W[mp];B[hf];W[hg];B[if];W[ig] ;B[be];W[dh];B[ci];W[di];B[js];W[hr];B[ab];W[bd];B[ad];W[bb];B[ac];W[dk];B[dl];W[ek] ;B[bc];W[cb];B[cd];W[dd];B[jf];W[kg];B[jg];W[jh];B[bp];W[bq];B[en];W[ia];B[cp];W[ka] ;B[qj];W[nk];B[gb];W[ga];B[je];W[nm];B[il];W[ik];B[lk];W[lj];B[kl];W[el];B[em];W[cl] ;B[fl];W[cj];B[bj];W[bk];B[ai];W[cg];B[bg];W[cf];B[nn];W[mm];B[om];W[ol];B[aq];W[ar] ;B[ap];W[br];B[dm];W[bm];B[fe];W[ee];B[hl];W[nf];B[hk];W[hj];B[fk];W[fj];B[og];W[ng] ;B[is];W[hs];B[eo];W[fp];B[oe];W[jo];B[nd];W[md];B[kf];W[lg];B[qs];W[sp];B[so];W[rs] ;B[sq];W[sr];B[od];W[bn];B[lf];W[mf];B[bo];W[ak];B[bd];W[af];B[bi];W[rl];B[ql];W[qk] ;B[rm];W[nl];B[ll];W[in];B[kn];W[fn];B[fm];W[pj];B[hn];W[ho];B[gn];W[oh];B[im];W[rj] ;B[sl];W[qh];B[ri];W[rh];B[sj];W[pg];B[sh];W[rf];B[rg];W[qg];B[re];W[sg];B[qe];W[se] ;B[sd];W[rd];B[sc];W[sb];B[sf];W[ag])

It is proceeding with "Thinking..." for an hour. When I pressed Stop, it shows error message.

What I did was wrong? (Except my naive moves :)

AshleyF: Thanks for reporting this. I can reproduce the problem with your game record on my device. The GnuGo integration is still a very experimental feature. I've sent your game record on to the guys working on the Mobile GnuGo port. I believe that there is some bug in GnuGo that is causing it to fail to (ever) return a move from certain positions (many involving Kos). GoSuite sits and patiently waits indefinitely for a move to come back from the engine.

Emmanuel Poirier?: First, thanks for this excellent Go suite for pocket PC ! I love to load old games on it, but playing games takes an age with my A620BT, about 1 or 2 minutes by move, and the game crashes (no GNU GO answer, and crashes if I try to save my game) after 19/20 moves in 19x19 board. Is it my pocket pc or is there still a "slow" bug in this release ? Thanks for the answer and this game :)

AshleyF: Humm... that seems quite insanely slow! For me (w/624Mhz and plenty of RAM) it takes between 1/10th of a second and 4-5 seconds depending on the position/board size/strength setting. If it's taking minutes I think something must be wrong. I'm guessing that maybe you're running extremely low on memory and possibly the GnuGoCE process is being killed by the OS between moves (then GoSuite restarts it and resyncs the board). I can sort of repro very slow behavior (10-20 seconds anyway) with < 6MB total memory remaining. Try moving to a storage card (just added instructions to the GoSuite page) and/or freeing up as much main memory as possible. If it still persists (and you have the energy to help me investigate :-), please mail me at gosuite@feniello.com and I'll set you up with an instramented build - maybe we can figure out what the heck is going on...

Emmanuel Poirier? Thanks for your answer, I noticed that my main memory was a bit slow (around 10/12Mo), I'll investigate with around 20Mo of free memory.

skyrider? Even providing 40MB of RAM for GoSuite 0.91 running GNUGO I am encountering hangs: GNUGO seems to think for several minutes without answer, even in Weakest mode. PPC is iPAQ 4150 running on 400 MHz. Any other having the same problem ?

AshleyF: This has improved with the GnuGo 3.6 build... Please let me know if/when you see more wierdness.

Rellik: SOmetimes it thinks forever also with GnuGo 3.6. You can test it when you use a 5x5 Board and let GnuGo play against itself. Sometimes every game hangs, sometimes every 10th game. The difficult level isn't importend.

Vadim Balashoff?: You can load SGF file in GoSuite and choose View->Zoom->Auto Crop to see only part of a board. But when you press button to return to the begin of SGF file, GoSuite automatically switches to the full view of a board. Can you make it optional?

AshleyF: That's bug. Thanks! I'll fix in the next release.

AshleyF: Fixed now in 0.91.

NPC?: Ashley, thanks for the great (and beautiful) tool, I use it almost daily to review my own and other's games. There is one thing that makes it very inconvenient for me though - I can only open (or see) files that are in the first level of folders from root. I like to keep my files organised, so I usually create a big hierarchy (e.g. /go/games/my/reviewed, or /go/games/gtl/around10k etc), and all these files are not visible to GoSuite - so I need to make my folders /go_my, and /go_gtl_10k, and /go_pro, - which is a mess. Would it be possible to modify Open dialog to browse around a folder hierarchy? And another thing that would be good - is ability to associate GoSuite with .sgf extension, so it opens from a File Explorer - I didn't manage to do that, the application opens to the main menu screen, and doesn't actually open the .sgf I clicked on while exploring my files. At any rate, so far I manage to use GoSuite and enjoy even with the above inconveniences, so keep it up!

Anon: First of all: Thanks for this wonderful program Ashley! I am using Pocket PCs only for some weeks now and maybe me question is very simple to answer: When I try to open a SGF file from memory card, the open dialog only shows files in top level folders. Files that are contained in sub level folders (e.g. /SGF Records/Tournaments/2004/xyz.sgf) are hidden. I have found no way to go to this last folder and open the file.

AshleyF: Yeah, two comments above are some bug in the standard open dialog. It appears to be fixed in the most recent 'Whidbey' builds. I think I'm going to wait for that rather than write my own open dialog. Eventually I'll have a completely different way of organizing and retrieving file (the tagging system like in Go Album).

Another annoying bug from microsoft. Do they test the software before releasing it? This bug seems to be pretty obvious. Anyway...I hope they will release a service pack soon, a fix in the new release of the OS won't help us, because all the stuff is in the systems ROM and can't be updated.

Koala?: You can fix the limitations of the open dialog with two small files released as freeware: gsgetfile.dll is an upgrade of the dialog and FileDialogChanger Ver.1.66 is an extension of the control panel to toggle between the old and the new dialog. Copy the two files in your windows directory, use the File Dialog Changer in Settings->System, and the job is done.

Vadim Balashoff: I'm terribly sorry again for my bad english, but I still have problem with final counting. :) I have installed two packages: GoSuite.ARMV4.CAB, PocketGnuGo.ARMV4.CAB. In GoSuite I can now play with computer, but if I choose Computer->Score or Computer->Ideas (or if I press icons for these actions), I always receive message "Go Engine Error. Could not communicate with GnuGoCE."

AshleyF: Ah, I see what you're talking about now. That is a very bad bug! The GTP reader/writer isn't handling floating point numbers correctly for UI cultures that don't use a dot for a decimal point! Great scott! I'll fix that. Note that it only affects Score and Ideas (as you noticed - playing should otherwise work). In the mean time the only workaround I can think of is to change your Region Options... I'll have a maintenance release in a week or two...

AshleyF: Fixed now in 0.91.

Vadim Balashoff: I'm so sorry, but now I have problem with showing handicap stones. When I load recently saved game in SGF-file, Go Suite don't show handicap stones on board. If I press ">", then "<" (or "|<") -- voila! they appears. On a board 19x19 all is ok. But on a boards 9x9, 13x13 it happens. Am I doing something wrong?

AshleyF: Fixed now in 0.91.

Rellik: I play on a 9x9 Board against GnuGo. The result is 10 times to high. If I win with 5.5 Points it shows w+50 if I win with 9.5 it shows W+90. Maybe it is a problem with localisation, 'cause I use a german Windows Mobile version. Never played a whole game to the end on 19x19.

AshleyF: Yeah, that sounds like a bug with number formatting (rounding and missing decimal point). I'll look into it... Thanks for reporting!

AshleyF: Fixed now in 0.91.

Rellik: Now if I win with 2,5 it shows only 2. This is better, but not perfect ;-)

AshleyF: Yep, I've noticed that too. If you look in /GoLog?.txt (GnuGo's GTP log) then you'll probably see something like "send(W+2 (upper bound: 2, lower: 2), 30)". GnuGo itself is simply reporting "2" as the score. I suspect that GnuGo has a similar culture-specific formatting problem. If you edit game info in GoSuite and set Result to say, "W+" and Score to "2,5", you'll see that the SGF stores REW+2.5? (with period) and GoSuite displays "W+2,5" (with comma). I'm pretty certain that GoSuite is now doing the right thing but I'll have to wait for Sid Liu to fix the matching bug in Pocket GnuGo. I could accomodate it by patching the score based on the komi value but I'd rather wait for a fix in GnuGo.

Rellik: Do you know what GnuGo Version will be in the next release of PocketGnuGo? 3.4, 3.6 or maybe ;-) 3.7? And how good is the progress of the development?

AshleyF: Current build is 3.4. I'm not really involved in GnuGo development, but you can keep up on it here at the [ext] Vieka Forum

Pimenta: I've finally bought a PDA, and started using your apps. Go Suite always show the keyboard after I start a new game against GNU Go, or if I just open a new board (I therefore need to close it before I do anything). Is this a known bug? Also, sometimes Gnu Go hangs completely, and it just doesn't play until the end of the game, even if I stop and resume the game. I guess this is a GNU Go problem, though, not Go Suite's... Sometimes it helps to undo once and play somewhere else, but this isn't really a solution; sometimes it gets stuck regardless of what next stone you try. This happens quite often, I'd say around 50% of the games. (WM2003SE, Fujitsu 720) Anyway, thanks again for you excellent apps, and keep that development going! ;-)

TeeGee? I have the same problem like Pimenta. I have a MDA III. The keyboard appears in the lower third/fourth of the board. Aaaaahhhh, I realy like to play this promising game. Please help. Thanx

glint? The "problem" of the keyboard coming up when you start a game against GnuGo or start recording a new game isn't a bug, the keyboard or other input method is needed to enter the game information at the start of the game. I.E. players name, GnuGo playing strength etc.

schulzki? I definitely love go suite combined with gnugo, but it is awfully slow playing against the cpu. Currently I have a Yakumo delta and a Asus A632 here for testing and on both machines I cannot get any flow into a game. Performance is going down with each move, after 10 mvs it is about 30 - 60 secs and getting worse. Both pdas have plenty of memory free, as far as I can see ( regarding system->memory it is 15 meg free on the small pda). I don't know what to do. The standalone version of PocketGnuGo 2.6.3 is running smoothley and responsive, but it plays much worse. The test version of Gnu Go 3.4 together with Pocket Go plays better but still weak, however, it also lags some perfomance during the game. So I really would love to get go suite run better. Any Ideas anybody?

Andrew? OK, I know the current version is not supposed to be for Windows Mobile 5 (yet), but I'm desperate for something nice for my new device. Go Suite looks good, but hangs the device (requiring a reset) if you try to open a saved game. Anyone got a fix? (WM5 on i-mate JAMin)

kaydub? I have been trying to use Go Suite with collections containing boards of different sizes. This works well if the program encounters a smaller board when you progress through the collection but not if the next record contains a larger board. I even have trouble when adding records to a collection with Go Suite. If the next record added has a larger board than the current one you get the same result as when browsing. ArgumentOutOfRangeError? and you must shut down the program. Anyone have any ideas?

AshleyF: That's a bug. I'll work on it...

Fixed Bugs

Chris: I noticed another bug. I was recording a game and wanted to remove some variations I inadvertently had added. I deleted the branches one by one by going to the next branch from the - I believe - View menu (I don't have it in front of me so this is from memory) and it went fine until I had removed all the branches and asked it to go to the next branch. It should be simple enough to diagnose and correct.

AshleyF: This is fixed now in the current build. It happens any time it has a cached path to a point in the record and you delete things that invalidate the path. Thanks for reporting it!

Chris: Basically, it gives an IndexOutOfRangeException when trying to open certain files. Now, they might be broken in one way or another but I have not figured out how as various other sgf-reader don't have problems. I've included one example, if you care to look into the problem.

AshleyF: This too is fixed now in the current build. It happens with malformed AP properties. I'll just skip the property in the future.

IlyaM: SGF parser seems to use regional settings when parsing numbers what obviously break things with locales which has decimal separator other then "." (dot). For example in Russian locale we have "," (comma) as decimal separator and GoSuite doesn't parse correctly results nodes like RE[W+20.5].

AshleyF: Fixed.

IlyaM: GoSuite has problems editing games with handicap stones: handicap stones disappear when editing the game. One way to reproduce: create a new handicap game (say with 5 handicap stones). New board with 5 preplaced handicap stones will appear. Make one move as white somewhere. After moving drag newly placed white stone to other location - handicap stones will disappear.

AshleyF: Fixed.

Juan: Just an observation: I notice that in the main GoSuite page, it refers to GnuGo using about 2.5 MB of RAM when running. However, it actually uses close to 10 MB. Is this because of the interaction with GoSuite? As a matter of fact, GoSuite itself uses about 4 MB of RAM, so when I play GnuGo through GoSuite it takes a bit over 14 MB of RAM. Hmm, does it have anything to do with running them from the Storage Card? :-(

AshleyF: That's pretty interesting. I'm pretty certain that running from a storage card should not make it worse. Even when running with installed to main memory, some portion of memory is designated by the OS as 'storage' and some portion as 'program' memory; it loads a second copy of the exe image into 'program' memory to run anyway (regardless of whether or not it was on a card). How did you measure this? With something like [ext] SuperTasks or just Memory control panel? The mem requirements listed on the main page are minimums to function. Both processes will grow to use more if available (for caching, etc.). 14MB overall sounds quite high though! I can't seem to get it to use that much on my device (without opening some huge SGF).

Juan: I measured it with just the Memory control panel. Hmm, let me try it again (just in case):

  • Free RAM just running Windows: 28.20 MB
  • Free RAM after launching GoSuite (no SGF opened): 24.54 MB
  • Free RAM playing against GnuGo: 14.62 MB
  • Playing and reviewing anywhere I go: Priceless :-)

AshleyF: I like the last bullet point :-) ... Huh, that is interesting. I don't really have a good explanation...

Juan: Well, it's cool. I have plenty of RAM left. Thanks for a superb program!

bfs?: I've never been able to get Gnu Go to work with Go Suite. It hangs, never makes a move, or takes several minutes, even with a 9x9 board. Never had it do anything at all at 19x19. I'm using Go Suite 0.91, and an Ipaq 4355. I'm at pretty limited memory now, but I was getting the same results when I had 10+ megs free.

I've just installed GoSuite onto my IPaq HW6915 and it suffers a bit from the display only being 240*240 pixels. I can't get the menus/controls and the board onto the screen at the same time. This isn't a problem for game recording as I can just get a whole board onto the screen with careful scrolling. Any likelihood of a 240*240 version? -- SGBailey

AshleyF: Yep. Can't promise when though... Peter and I are working on better support for various screen dimensions (240x240, landscape 320x240, 176x220 Smartphone, even 480x640 VGA, etc.) and DPIs (131dpi QVGA is very common, 192dpi VGA, etc.). Right now it only works nicely at 240x320@96dpi (and works pixel-doubled at 480x640@192dpi).

JesseChisholm: AshleyF, Is GoSuite's SgfReader? + SgfWriter? + SgfDocument?? available in library form? I'm interested in writing a SGF file merge tool for my desktop. If necessary, and source is available, I can massage for cross platform and send it back to you. Thanks.

Go Suite/ Discussion last edited by on January 26, 2015 - 08:10
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