BQM 553

    Keywords: Question

This is some debris from Probing during the attach and draw back joseki

[Diagram]
Probe n5 - var 1  

If White protects the corner, Black comes back to complete the joseki. Now black+circle lies in support for dealing with a White approach at a, which is also awkward shapewise.

fractic: I think this result is OK for Black but not that good. White can't play a but Black has lost much of the corner aji. But I think this is the worst answer by White.

[Diagram]
Probe n5 - var 2  

If White W1 takes the outside, Black makes a solid connection with B2, then lives in the upper right.

[Diagram]
Probe n5 - var 2  

Next, White attacks the three stones but they escape to the centre in good shape.

fractic: I don't like this so much for Black, I think white is making a lot of points and the clump of three black stones feels a bit heavy. How about not connecting with B2 in the previous diagram but living in the top right first? This feels lighter to me.

[Diagram]
Probe n5 - var 3  

Now the obvious move to me, when Black plays such a low approach as black+circle is to tenuki and punish Black for not connecting. White cuts with W1 and W3 and to my eyes Black's position is low and can be kept low with a move at a next. What do fellow deshis think?

fractic: I think black+circle is in a bit of an akward spot but it looks playable enough to me. I'm not really strong enough to have a definite opnion on this but It's an interesting idea for sure. I'd have to try it before I could say any more. I'm more familiar with a similar probe.

Slarty: a seems an overplay...black can push and cut, then when white extends, the ladder is good for black, who takes the 3-3. Alternatively, black can push and clamp, for as much territory on the side as white's corner. Both white groups' influence is unfinished, with development hindered by black's hoshis.

tapir: I would caution against "don't know this move, must be wrong, how do I punish" idea. In fact, you find surprisingly many games in the database with this approach (though not in this exact position). And I would likely cut here too to see what my opponent has in mind, if I lose I have at least learned sth. As local answers I wouldn't assume the iron pillar as the necessarily best one (it might be when you want to attack hard - but here Black has stones along the edge, so you won't attack and the iron pillar leaves you with bad endgame here). How about the 3-3 point?

[Diagram]
Probe n5 - var 4  

(After ten minute's thought) Perhaps a first is obvious?

[Diagram]
other probe  

fractic: I know this B5 as a probe. to solve the same problem. You want to see if white answers at a or b.

[Diagram]
other probe  

fractic: If White plays b then Black holds back to B4 and now the corner is more open than if White had played a.

[Diagram]
other probe  

fractic: If White plays a then an invasion at c wouldn't work as well as when White would have played b. However according to after joseki White can just invade anyway and then there are a lot of variations. But I don't have access to that book right now so I can't supply them at the moment.


BQM 553 last edited by Dieter on January 13, 2012 - 17:20
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