4-5 point, 4-3 approach, thrust

    Keywords: Joseki

I haven't seen this before, so I don't know if this is a real joseki or not. Or maybe it is a new one? Does anyone have any thoughts on different possible variations, good situations to use this? --BlueWyvern

Downward Thrust  

This is basically the opposite of the upwards thrust from the 3-4 point. It seems like a or b are the likely white continuations although c seems like it may be possible if the ladder is favorable for White.

Possible continuation?  

Shared profit?

More continuation fun...  

White takes the corner? rubilia: What´s the problem with w 9 at 10?

BillSpight: Interesting idea! :-)

Black corner  

Black 4 at 5 is too passive. White plays kikashi with White 5 - Black 10,

Black corner (cont.)  

and extends to 1. The marked black stone looks a bit out of place.

JoelR: Two moves here confuse me. Why is B10 important? White can't advance further into the side. It does claim the corner, but if that's more important than the extensions, why doesn't White play W7 at B8?

Bill: Well, first, B10 is consistent with Black's two-step hane. If Black wanted to cede the corner to White, better to extend as above. Also, after B10 Black does not need to extend on the left side.

As for W7, it gets complicated. Here is one variation.

White goes for the corner.  
White goes for the corner (ii).  

B4 is tesuji. B10 takes the ko.

The saying is that there is no ko in the opening, so this is not so good for White.

White takes the corner.  

Here is another thought. After White ataris Black's two stones, Black can give up the corner and White gets a low position.

Big White corner  

Black 2 and Black 4 work with the stones Black already has, but White gets a big corner. The exchange of the marked stones favors White a bit.

Black influence  

White 3 at a strengthens Black needlessly. After Black 4 Black is thick, but a bit overconcentrated.

Dieter: Is this because now White can play around b to negate Black's influence ? I like Black's position here.

Bill: I would prefer a Black stone at b to black+circle.

HolIgor: But the question is not whether this is playable. The question is if this is the most efficient way in the situation.

Usual joseki 1  
Usual joseki 2  

Black can choose a at move 2, going for thickness. With the downward thrust Black allows White to make the choice.

Downward Thrust  

Dieter: From the 3-4 point, 5-4 approach, one space low pincer, thrust page, I assume this sequence is feasible. Normally Black attacks a white stone at a: that stone being absent, one may have the feeling that Black's play is a little vague with respect to White's firmly taking territory.

Bill: With a White stone on a, the two step hane does not work.

Downward Thrust  

Continuing comparing this to the pincer variation, W can annihilate Black's influence in exchange for being shut in (maybe B0 better at a), provided there is no Black position below W9.

4-5 point, 4-3 approach, thrust last edited by Dieter on July 5, 2008 - 14:28
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