# Territory/discussion

Sub-page of Territory

 Table of contentsQuestion 1 - about the example on the main page Question 2 - about unfinished territory in a finished game Table of diagramsTerritory arising from real play 3-12 board

## Question 1 - about the example on the main page

Territory arising from real play

The exchange up to is a common continuation of the 3-3 point invasion. The exchange of White a to Black d is more of an endgame sequence.

The circle-marked points constitute an area controlled by White, where Black can't make a living group (if White answers correctly). We can say that this 3-3 invasion makes roughly 10 points of territory.

ChihChan: I have a question here.

You consider White a to Black d is more of endgame sequence. Then White get 10 points of territory. However, it is also possible for Black to play a or c first. Then, White will get fewer points of territory. So, during the middle of the game, different calculations will have different results that may be favorable for both sides. So, are there any criteria for deciding this kind of situation?

Shouichi: Compare advantage to disadvantage. CostBenefitAnalysis or common sense can dictate the answer.

Sebastian: I think what Shouichi means is that, instead of playing a or c, both Black and White can better play at some other part of the board first. At some point of the game there will be no bigger move than a anymore. Then one of the players goes there and gets the remaining few points. You ask: "Why is it called a 10 point move, if it can be less?" The answer has to do with sente, which is beyond the introductory level. Simplified, we might say, it is like counting accounts receivable as assets in a balance sheet. Even though we know that the company may likely never receive the full amount, the accountant counts it as 100% because it simplifies things. -- 2003-09-12

Bruce: The amount of territory depends on how the game proceeds afterwards, which will depend on the surrounding position. For example, Black a is a severe threat against White, and if White answers at c Black has successfully reduced White's territory. But is some cases White might answer at e instead, and depending on the position further to the left Black may not like that result, in which case he might leave the position as is and let White play a.

Bill: The above diagram mixes estimated territory with the concept of territory. That can be confusing. (Besides, the estimate is questionable.)

But the concept of territory is broader than the definition at the top of the page. For instance, we talk about taking away territory or living inside the opponent's territory or playing inside the opponent's territory (usually with the result of taking some or all of it away). So the diagram showing estimated territory is not so far off.

## Question 2 - about unfinished territory in a finished game

3-12 board

In this position is 'a' territory or not? Assume both players passed and the game is over. I understand that the position is unsettled but I would like to know how it must be scored according to tradition.

Bill: There is no tradition about scoring unfinished positions, AFAIK.

Mokis97?: It is still counted as a point even though its unsettled.

Bill: 'a' is not counted (estimated) as territory unless Black plays at 'b'.

Territory/discussion last edited by 99.162.154.12 on April 9, 2016 - 05:29