Playing A Game Backwards / Discussion

I've been following this game played backwards, and I don't really see the interest (however interesting your idea may be). In particular I would rather try to give meaning to "take away the last move" rather than take away the last ten and then play them back in forward mode as you're doing now. --DieterVerhofstadt

HolIgor: The idea was like to show the game chunk by chunk. First, what the final position is, and why it is final; then the position in which several useful moves were left, then the rest of the yose, middle game and fuseki at last.

It does not work move by move because there is no interest in guessing what the last move was. And I mean it for the beginners and not for you. I suspected the yose will take a little bit too long, it is always long. But at the same time if I mean it for the beginners I have to show some tricks and possible mistakes in the endgame. There are a lot of mistakes in the game itself. I've chosen a very poor game to be able to show better moves in many places.

Never mind, if it does not work then let it be.

--DieterVerhofstadt Oh, no, please continue. ^[1]

HolIgor: I did not mean that I wanted to stop. I rather meant that if it is not useful that it does no harm :)

I think this is a great idea, HolIgor! :-) One request: could you make the game record SGF file available on this page? Thanks. --BillSpight

I like this idea. As someone who is very new to go, it is difficult for me to see what the real objective and how to wind things down. Starting backwards shows that. The moves at the beginning don't make any sense until you understand where it is you are trying to get to. Thanks for your efforts, --XScott

kokiri I'm interested in comparing where the territory is at the end of the game with what shapes and extensions the two players make through the game. I think that this sort of backwards approach might give an insight into which parts of the board really are big and which ones look big early on, but actually aren't.

[1] Dieter new comment on Jan 2004: actually, this is a fantastic didactic device. I am replaying a game of mine backward to understand yose. I do stop at each move and consider the alternatives, which are very few at the endgame stage. I notice the following immediate benefits:

1. The reading one should do at the late stages, is done repetitively.
2. The same alternatives always come back (but one is added every move).
3. You get a better idea of what sente means.
4. You get a better idea of what ko-threats mean, and then some.
5. You get to feel the difference between and the value of leaving one ko, leaving two kos, ..., and for whom the kos are left to take.
6. At a certain point, the exercise becomes too difficult or tedious to determine the outcome. The challenge would be to push back that point, I guess.

Naustin- I also have tried playing a game (a pro game) backwards to get a better understanding of the endgame. I had a problem doing that though. It is difficult to decide whether to comment on a move when it is on the board or after you've scrolled back one more. It seems if the move is on the board it is difficult to tell which move it is whereas if you wait till after you scroll then it obvious where the move was but now you are commenting on it after the fact (or rather before the fact). Of course you can scroll back two and then forward one but still then if you try to start at the beginning (or end) and try to read comments it is again very confusing. Particularly ko situations seemed a lot more confusing to think about.