OK i'll have a go for W!
This ends in gote for W
Bill: Too deep.
And this ends in sente but steals much less territory
unkx80: Sente but loses points. No need to think too hard...
bobulatorm Oh! Of course! Is this right?
argh i've just seen another route although i think B should play 2 at 5. will try again later. sorry for my lack of reading skills!
JoelR: Later - and - are White's sente. This looks 3 points worse for Black than Bill's "Black to Play" diagram.
ichundso?: i think this is very very slightly better, because "a" is a ko threat that destroyes a black ko threat at "b"
JoelR: I don't understand this comment. If Wa, then Bb, but if Bb, then Wa. So may I put those in, and compare to above?
JoelR: This is two points worse for White.
What about when Black plays first?
Bill: It has been a while, so I'll reply.
is orthodox play. Later, - is sente.
The hane, , is correct only in very special circumstances, where Black is komaster and the ambient temperature is very low. To win the ko Black would need some very large ko threats, but then Black could pick up an extra point.
(Anonymous): Umm? How does Black get an extra point? If black wins the ko and connects, both have captured one stone and lost one point relative to the orthodox diagram, so it's the same result? Seems to me like Black has nothing to gain in the ko and one point to lose.
Bill: Good point! Yes, I goofed. The ko gains only under area scoring when Black can win the ko after the dame have been exhausted. Since this is White's sente, and White has a huge threat, that's virtually impossible.
Last question: How much is this White sente worth?
shinkenjoe: Not sure bout this. White gains 1 point of territory in sente, the black gote play at 1 gets black one point in gote So the deiri value was 2, its whiteīs sente so the miai value is 2.
The threat behind the black gote at 1 , if white didnīt answer with 2, humm it gets hard now.
Implying Black plays 5 cause he he can be sure that white answers with 6. it takes 4 points of white territory fot black in sente, worth 4 point leaving another sente-gote in favor of white exactly like the first sente An white answer there would also be sente. Sente- sente situations canīt be measuered in miai value, i thought. Im confused