4-4 point, double high approach

  Difficulty: Advanced   Keywords: Joseki
Second high approach  

Once White has approached high against Black's 4-4 point, for example with white+circle, it is definitely severe if Black allows White the second high approach at white+square.

In fact White's second high approach here is such a good play that pros are quite reluctant to allow it. When it does occur in high-level games, it is often involved in some ladder strategy.


This is the common continuation here.

White gains territory and takes sente; while Black cannot yet be considered secure.

Revised joseki  

This variant is also seen. Black avoids making an exchange that mostly firms up White's shape (Black at the circled point versus White at the squared point).

It is also possible for Black to play moves looking for quick life in the corner: but the cost in outside influence conceded to White will be high.


High handi option?  

I seem to have had some luck playing for big walls out of this in high handicap games where my wall is backed up by a side stone (just past the square). The empty triangle (unmarked black stones and B3) and the short extension of nine are the price one pays for having played elsewhere and allowed the double approach (at least that is how i think of it). Without a side star stone in place, this price is very high since the orphan white stone can run away too easily. The circle is big for both players (white usually plays it) but that gives black sente, which is also worth a lot. I am not suggesting that this is optimal play, but it is uncomplicated, solid and generates about as much territory (assuming you don't mess up and let white live underneath) as white gets. I welcome critiques from higher level players, as my success may be a quirk of my most common high handi opponent.

Sometimes I play B9 at the circle, particularly if I have a center star stone in addition to the side stone. I have to admit I cringe about black running along the 5/4 lines though.

- Sinprejic

High handi option?  

Warfreak2: White's hane here is a little aggressive (probably due to this being a high handicap game), the cut at a later is shining.

High handi option?  

This even works with white at the circled point, although in that case there is no loose ladder to capture the cutting stone later.

what are the threats?  

tderz: Above atari W2 from below looks bad.
If W6, B7 is big (p-t; perhaps sente?),
whereas a tactical idea White a-l seems not to work,
because white l takes away an own liberty.

If White cannot play W6 with a working threat a,
then Black could play later p-q-r (leave out endgame play t),
then go for ko black h - Wu Bv-Ww, Bx-Wy, ko Bz.

what are the threats? (1)  

tderz: for illustration:

what are the threats?  

tderz: B6 at W3 and now it´s 2 white vs. 4 black liberties (in the corner=,
W cannot fight like this.


tderz: What to play then? (if one has chosen this path at all)
I would always also investigate the other atari.
If I don´t like this path so much either,
I wouldn´t have chosen exchanges B3, B5 + B7 of Sinprejic´s diagram above.

see also: BQM327

4-4 point, double high approach last edited by on January 25, 2015 - 23:00
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