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Policy of this wiki [#803]
I am terrified and sorry about the news that someone and his program is shut out from this wiki. It shows that the wiki is not objective, and cannot longer be trusted to give unbiased facts. The owner of this wiki clearly feathers his own nest. The reasons given for this dictatorial event are not well founded.
1. The flamewar could be stopped earlier by other means. Someone accused for criminal actions should be allowed to defend himself as long as the accusations are not deleted by the owner.
2. Legal threats ... I don't see any problems with that. If you follow the law, there is nothing to be afraid of. If not, the threats are appropriate.
3. If the legal threats are valid (the law is broken), there is nothing wrong in trying to close down a site breaking the law.
I am sorry to see that *this* is the way the situation is handled. It makes me think about China, North-Korea and similar countries. I am very sorry. I acknowledge the right for the owner of this site to do what he did, but this wiki is no longer an unbiased source to go, and parts of todays go are now hidden from the go society.
"The reason I want Senseis Library permanently shut down is that it really is out of control, with not just libel against my person, prduct and company [...]" This is a quote from the user who was banned. Why allow a user with this stated aim to edit the wiki? I don't see any advantage to that. This is a community of editors interested in Go. We are not a community interested in warfare. Banning is the last step in regulation, and the reasons it has been taken in this instance are ones I support here. I think the wiki will not miss their contribution.
{{ Arno: edited post. }}
TheOriginalAnonymousCoward? As far as I can tell, no one has been banned from this wiki. It's almost impossible to do, since a person can just access it from another IP ( for example, he can go to an internet cafe ).
The only way to ban a person is to create an account system, then restrict postings to people who are logged in.
I'm tired of hearing these complaints of censorship for the last 20 years. SL is owned by Arno. He can do what he wants with it ( within limits ). If anyone feels he is prevented from saying something, he can do what everyone does: buy his own web site.
As for bias, if anyone finds anything biased about the collection of joseki, problems, information and other go related arcania, they don't have to read this site.
I have deleted some posts. Please don't feed the trolls - admins will delete their posts.
I am still interested in hearing about ideas for a policy for this wiki. I am not interested in discussion about the legal aspects, as I don't assume that any one of you is a laywer in Austria (my place of residence.)
We could adopt ![[ext]](images/extlink.gif)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_legal_threats or an altered version of this Wikipedia policy.
So I noticed that you deleted my recent addition of my opinion regarding the flamewar. That's totally fine-- with the banning of the offending user, the issue is no longer relevant on SL anyway. [Yes, I do admit that I intentionally made that addition a major edit so that everyone would notice.]
Anyway, as far as policies go, I think wikipedia's " three revert rule" and " neutral point of view" should also be considered, at least when describing Go-related programs and people...
AndreasTeckentrup: I completely agree that Senseis Library is not the right site to continue this kind of flamewar, so its ok to me to remove it from the pages, which are for go related information. Nevertheless, I think it would be good to keep the page about the PRODUCT without any controversial discussion, just including a short, neutral description description and a link to the authors page.
If history is any indication, a neutral commentary that list any negatives is immediately attacked as libelous. If mentioning a particular product destroys the civil discourse of Sensei's Library, removing the discussion is the only way to go.
The claim ... a neutral commentary that list any negatives is immediately attacked as libelous is remarkably incorrect. The AGA review of the software is so factually inaccurate as to make one believe that a different product was being reviewed. Misrepresentation of facts, either by mistake or by deliberate act, does not constitute a neutral commentary. Everyone I have met in person has spoken well of the reviewer. The inaccuracies of the review do not fit the description of the reviewer. I can not reconcile the two.
The review should be preserved. Each inaccuracy should be noted within the body of the review. That would constitute a factually accurate commentary. Factual accuracy is the least that we should strive to achieve.
Please stay on subject. The topic is what the policies of the wiki should be. Reviews are opinion, and everyone is entitled to one if its accurate or not. It should mearly be placed outside of the product's main sensei's page and in a "review" page. People can choose to read them or not.
I think that the sensei's members are correct and we should use similar policies to Wikipedia. I understand Arno's choice and I think they are reasonable it in light of the litigious nature of this case. Its too bad a less ridiculous solution could not be found.
I hope we call let this drop all further conversation and stop feeding, directly or indirectly, the useless conversations and resulting advertising. Or is it mearly your goal to keep rehashing the same tired arguments?
Reviews are opinion, and everyone is entitled to one if its accurate or not.
Rob, we agree completely that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No one is entitled to their own facts. Factually inaccurate material should be noted at such at the place it appears or removed.
Perhaps an example is in order.
During the three jubango between Lee Changho and Go Seigen, Go won only six games. Or if something more subtle is needed, during the jubango between Hashimoto Utaro and Go Seigen, Hashimoto won nine games and so obtained the best result against Go.
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