Forum for Seeing

Regarding: "Seeing" 1 move [#30]

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malweth: Regarding: "Seeing" 1 move (2005-10-09 12:00) [#63]
[Diagram]
We see black a?  

Malweth Is reading one move in advance (a in diagram) really "seeing" as the page is proposed by the author? Choosing the next move isn't really reading ahead.

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24.218.49.74: Re: Regarding: "Seeing" 1 move (2005-10-09 17:30) [#64]

Bob McGuigan: I think it's all "reading". Finding the next move involves evaluating the position in some way and, even if it seems to take no time it is still reading. Pros might "see" something in one second that takes me five minutes to read out. It is still reading, just very fast.

(Arno: removed excessive quoting)

jared: Re: Regarding: "Seeing" 1 move (2005-10-09 21:25) [#68]

My point is that I don't read that move. I just see it. It appears on the board, like a halucination, if you will. :)

24.218.49.74: Re: Regarding: "Seeing" 1 move (2005-10-09 23:17) [#70]

Bob McGuigan: My point is that "seeing" is reading, just fast. You "see" the move because you have played in similar situations before and internalized the pattern. You are still reading, I think.

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velobici: Re: Regarding: "Seeing" 1 move (2005-10-09 15:49) [#66]

How is this seeing different from pattern recognition?

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jared: same thing (2005-10-09 21:26) [#69]

same thing

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Nachtrabe: Re: Regarding: "Seeing" 1 move (2005-10-09 22:48) [#72]

I really don't "see" why we need a separate term for this?

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ArnoHollosi: Re: Regarding: "Seeing" 1 move (2005-10-10 00:09) [#76]

Thinking in computer terms: "reading" is trying out variations. Because of limited time you cannot try all 361 points on the board for every move, not even all points in a corner. So one relies on learned patterns, intuition, heuristics etc. to know which potential moves should be investigated further (i.e. read out).

I have read somewhere that the difference between pros and amateurs is that pros spend most of their time evaluating positions after a sequence, whereas amateurs spend most of their time reading. Furthermore, on a typical move a professional only considers 3-4 potential moves.

I guess this is what is referred to "seeing": choosing promising moves among the potential candidates which to read out. This is where the phrase "I did not see that move" comes from: even if you can read 20 moves deep, you prune at (almost) every step and can miss a surprising unusual move at step 2. And sometimes you prune the wrong ones. So I see a difference between "reading" and "seeing".

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malweth: Re: Regarding: "Seeing" 1 move (2005-10-10 04:24) [#81]

Although none of these replys really talk about the my original question.

I agree with "seeing" - I often see a complete sequence, rather than read out each individual branch... this has also gotten me into trouble in myriad ways.

However, I don't believe that choosing your next move can be considered either reading or seeing. Essentially, "reading" at a depth of zero and evaluating the position can't really be considered reading. We don't "see" "a" in the example because you're just talking about visualizing the next move. Allowing this as both an example and as the definition of the term obfuscates the overall idea.

 
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