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Can empty points be described as Farmer's Hat? [#106]

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BobMyers: Can empty points be described as Farmer's Hat? (2005-10-28 23:35) [#268]

This page says that "Farmer's Hat" can be used to describe a shape of empty points, but is this really correct?

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Bill: Re: Can empty points be described as Farmer's Hat? (2005-10-30 14:15) [#274]

According to the review of Contemporary Go Terms at [ext] http://www.usgo.org/EJournal/archive/AMERICAN%20GO%20E-JOURNAL_%20September%2010,%202005.htm (and, I suppose, the book itself) the Farmer's Hat makes two empty triangles. That means it refers to stones, not empty points.

Bill: Re: Can empty points be described as Farmer's Hat? (2005-11-16 20:41) [#501]

As this [ext] Baduk World site indicates, the Korean for Farmer's Hat is used for both the shape of the stones, which it translates into Japanese as jingasa, and, in combination with another character, for the shape of the eyespace, which it transtlates as jingasa-nakade.

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ArnoHollosi: Davies' name: "four-space pyramid" (2005-10-30 08:54) [#273]

Davies' L&D book names the shape "four-space pyramid".

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BobMyers: Re: Can empty points be described as Farmer's Hat? (2005-10-30 17:38) [#278]

My initial reaction was indeed that using "farmer's hat" for the shape was just something someone had made up and was not very useful, but I was reluctant to completely get rid of the word, but now I feel we should. We can and should use Davies' term, but it does not really roll very smoothly off the tongue.

Without getting back into the great "nakade" debate, when I learned this shape a billion years ago it was simply called "4-moku nakade", which was completely unambiguous, short, and easy to learn. Of course, this assumes, first, that you have the "correct" (my) interpretation of "nakade", not the vacuous and meaningless version that it is any move inside, but rather a killing move in the middle of one of the specifically killable shapes, and second, that you can also use the term "nakade" as a kind of abbreviation for the shape which is killable by the actual "nakade" move.

The Japanese approach of "n-moku nakade" works well because the use of the "nakade" makes the terms instantly recognizable as referring to a killable eye space inside an enclosed group. And the 4, 5, and 6-moku nakade shapes are unique (there are two 3-moku nakade shapes, of course). English terms like "four-space pyramid" fail to achieve a similar economy of meaning. A good English-ization would involve one word with the "nakade" connotation. Perhaps "killable four spaces" or "four-point (shape) killable shape" or "killable four-pointer" would work for the shape, and "four-point (space) killing move" or "four-pointer killing move" for the actual move. But I guess no-one's looking for alternative English terms for such basic concepts now, 20 or 30 years later.

-- Bob

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LCZLAPINSKI: Re: Can empty points be described as Farmer's Hat? (2005-10-30 21:33) [#283]

Many English speaking Go players use Farmer's Hat and recognize what is meant by the term. I would say it is a more common usage than "four-space pyramid".

LCzlapinski

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LCZLAPINSKI: Re: Can empty points be described as Farmer's Hat? (2005-10-30 20:42) [#282]

The term Farmer's Hat for the empty points has popular usage and many English speaking Go players recognize what is meant.

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Bill: Re: Can empty points be described as Farmer's Hat? (2005-10-31 01:17) [#285]

That's why Farmer's Hat Eye Space is an appropriate alias for Pyramid Four.

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Remillard: Re: Can empty points be described as Farmer's Hat? (2005-10-30 21:09) [#284]

Personally I always think of it as a "dead T shape" but I've not written any books on the subject.

 
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