Honte Lib 7

is 'a' honte or not?  

tderz: a normal joseki involving a ladder

is 'a' honte or not?  

tderz: The question arises when to remove the white stone.
Often it is told that an immediate removal is honte.

Position (a)  

tderz: my understanding is: is here honte

Position (a)  

tderz: my understanding is: here is also honte.
(but it is much less honte than in the position above)

Bob McGuigan: I think capturing is called the proper move because it eliminates the possibility of White playing a ladder break, maybe not immediately but at some later time.

tderz Exactly, that's right! And the aji of such a ladder break is less important in a safer 3-4 shimari position
then in an extension or moyo involving 4-4.

I wanted to convey that point which I learned in Beijing from Cao Dayuan last year. I was playing a horrible game (means 'I lost') with a Chinese 2-4dan while Dayuan xiansheng was occasionally dropping in, overviewing the game. Afterwards my amateur opponent said (about me) 'He is playing benshou? a lot.' Dayuan xiansheng disagreed and explained the difference.

(The position is very much simplified, I wanted to boil down the teaching content)

Bill: There may be a prescriptive/descriptive question here. IOW, is honte always a good play? I do not have any reference to hand, but I think not always. I recall a comment something like, "It's hard to beat someone who keeps playing honte." But it was in the context of just having done so, and, as I recall, it was because the overall effect of the honte was slow development.

Bill, that's a good example of yours: honte or any other standard 'good' development may not be fast enough. I think many Korean games show this development where e.g. Josekis are halted for several moves in one corner , only to set up another position in another area.