Dots Go Ongoing Game/ Move 93 discussion

Sub-page of DotsGoOngoingGame
Dots Go, moves 91-100  

unkx80: Moves 91 to 100 are reproduced here for convenience. For Black 99 and White 100, see /game losing move. See also /move 94 net variation.

What I want to mention is that W8 is a very big endgame move, mainly because it affects the eye space of both Black and White groups, and therefore sente for both players. Earlier, Black has no chance of playing it. But I thought that B3 could be played at W8. Of course, this might also imply that W2 may be suboptimal.

Big endgame move (W6 at black+circle)  

unkx80: If B3 connects, then I guess W4 has no better move than to capture the three Black stones. But B5 is sente, and W6 must play in the middle of the three stones (at black+circle) to live. Then B9 can proceed to grab the next big point. I think B3, B5 and B9 together can compensate for the 5-point loss for losing the three stones.

By the way, B7 should also be grabbed early - it is a 5-point sente for Black.

Bill: After W8 saves White's group, White must eventually capture at a. Also, later on Black can capture one of the white+circle stones in gote (or White can save it in gote). So White's local count is only 3 points of territory, 4 points on the side minus 1 point for the stone in jeopardy. But if White plays the reverse sente at B7, White gets 8 points of territory. That's why B7 is a 5 point sente. (By territory scoring. By area scoring it's worth 6 points.)

LukeNine45: I'm curious: does it matter how big it is? Since there's no ko, is there really any reason to avoid playing sente moves? For example, what about the sequence I marked above-- Black b through white e-- in real go it would be aji keshi (probably) but is it here? I realize that black will probably be able to play this before white can play the reverse sente, but is there any reason to wait?

WillerZ: It's not a habit you would want to get into, but in that specific case it would be fine. The risk you run is that a move turns out to be less sente than you previously thought. If White has a move that killed more stones than Black c or e kills, she can ignore a Black play at b to do it. After that White plays at c or d are her sente too, so it's extra valuable. I don't think there's anything bigger around in this case.

WillerZ: After the diagram above White needs to be very careful - if it becomes impossible for the White group which captured the three black stones to connect out then a Black play under the stones at black+circle will kill it off. It may already be impossible, I haven't yet read it all out.

Bill: WillerZ, W6 has already been played at black+circle before the end of the last diagram.

WillerZ: So it has; I read that paragraph several times and still managed to miss it somehow. I've added a parenthetical black+circle to make it more obvious to anyone else with the same thought as I.

LukeNine45, it seems that playing a sente in dots go loses a dame. That can be a problem if a semeai develops. Besides, if you wait your opponent might take the reverse sente too early.

LukeNine45: Gotcha. Keep liberties (though not an issue for the completely alive black group at the bottom) and give the other side as many chances to mess up as possible.

White really does just have to make two eyes  

Alex: See, this is what bugs me about Dots Go. I can't wrap my brain around things like this... I was sure that W1 here instead of a would work because if B2, SURELY White must be able to capture a stone somehow, up above. But no.

Dots Go Ongoing Game/ Move 93 discussion last edited by LukeNine45 on February 7, 2007 - 02:01
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