Forum for Molasses Ko

"Assuming that there are no ko threats big enough" [#8006]

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194.12.167.248: "Assuming that there are no ko threats big enough" (2019-08-27 15:37) [#11412]

The assumption "there are no ko threats big enough" is less realistic than it sounds.

[Diagram]
Molasses ko (Black to play)  

In this position, the local difference between White killing the black stones and Black killing the white stones is 54 points (under Chinese rules). But if Black plays elsewhere and White immediately wants to kill, the game will proceed this way:

  • Black tenuki
  • White b, takes the ko
  • Black tenuki
  • White d, captures the black group
  • Black tenuki

So White wins the Molasses ko, and captures the black stones, but Black gets three more moves outside than if they had played at a to keep fighting the Molasses ko. If these moves are worth more than 18 points each, Black shouldn't fight the Molasses ko!

In fact, the value of fighting the Molasses ko might be even less, because even if Black keeps fighting, they are not guaranteed to kill the White stones, so the local difference in points between Black tenuki and Black a might be less than 54 points (see the discussion on the status of the Molasses ko). --ArsenLapin?

X
107.210.159.110: Re: "Assuming that there are no ko threats big enough" (2019-08-27 17:26) [#11413]

Bill: The proposed line of play is inequitable because Black gets an extra move. Black gets only 2 moves in exchange for the ko, not 3.

If you want exact figures, then you need to read everything out.

194.12.167.248: Re: "Assuming that there are no ko threats big enough" (2019-08-29 14:16) [#11416]

ArsenLapin?: You are right, of course. So Black only gets two extra moves. So they would need to be at least 27 points, assuming that the Molasses ko is really worth 54; it's probably worth less than that number.

 
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