Forum for 4-5 point 4-3 approach keima, contact at 3-5, hanedashi

Two quick questions [#3006]

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88.178.226.92: Two quick questions (2014-04-21 14:09) [#10056]

Hi, I've seen this hanedashi in a game I watched recently but I hadn't first found the right joseki page so I tried a few things by myself.

[Diagram]
Main line  

In the game the players followed the joseki and arrived to this situation. The joseki page says W5 works, but how should White react if Black tries to cut around a ?

[Diagram]
Cut ?  

Isn't this a catastrophe if the ladder doesn't work for White ?


My second question is about B1 below, which was the first move I thought of. Am I right to think that this sacrifice strategy is bad because Black ends with gote after building thickness ? (So that Black's only option after the hanedashi is to make small life for his left group ?)

[Diagram]
5k ideas :P  


--Timm

X
82.6.100.206: Re: Two quick questions (2014-04-21 20:02) [#10057]

Q1:

[Diagram]
Cut ?  

White is connected, though his shape is not great. But black also gets less good shape in the centre now.


Q2:

Yes, there's no point cutting if you then sacrifice them. Compare to this joseki:

[Diagram]
Joseki  

In joseki white's corner is not thick and black can hassle it, e.g. 'a' is sente.

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Slarty: ((no subject)) (2014-04-21 22:02) [#10058]

Q1 It's also nearly a catastrophe for black if the ladder doesn't work, but white is connected so W5 works.

Q2 Isn't this the corner this originated from? Then a starts the simplest variation, hanedashi b is for fighting and may well be ladder dependent, and push and cut at c is the best way to sacrifice for outside gote thickness. In your idea there is a big flaw in the wall, the cut at the 5-5 point / the knight's move, and at least the stone at the 3-3 point is inconsistent. Alternative below

[Diagram]
options earlier  
[Diagram]
ok but not great  
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Timm: Timm (2014-04-22 11:49) [#10060]

Thanks for your answers, that was helpful ! Should I add the diagram showing the connection to the joseki page, for reference ?

 
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Forum for 4-5 point 4-3 approach keima, contact at 3-5, hanedashi
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