Forum for KGS Worst Admin
Muttley / Maproom / Muttley's response from the /intention subpage [#2848]
And I want to make it clear that the comments on this in bold are mine. Muttley, KGS admin
This last sentence is nonsense. KGS has a complaint procedure, and I subscribe to it. I've had people take up my conduct with me directly also in my role as an admin, and where I'm wrong, I apologise. So instead of the sarcastic "We all know how well that works :P", why don't you actually use the procedures already in place instead of griping here?
The purpose of the page "KGS worst admin being what? A place to publicly denounce admin on KGS without the right to reply? Because that, currently, is how your page works.
Absolutely right, it doesn't, and its a poor reflection on you that you don't understand how to take up dissatisfaction in a constructive way.
Out of the mouths of babes and innocents ... "I don't see an issue that cannot be sorted out." Why don't you read what you write and reflect on what that actually means?
Great, nominations for people to criticise publicly on senseis. In that case I would like to nominate Tapir for inclusion in the "worst admin" category, but in this case as a librarian on senseis. When I found out that there was a page called "KGSWorstAdmin" I visited it. I was saddened to see senseis being used as a public forum for making allegations against admin that do not give the whole picture- no surprises there. What saddened me more was that when I added a few humourous complaints about me, Muttley ("I got banned for stroking Muttley" got the most laughs), I was informed they were removed by someone called Tapir. Tapir is a librarian here- the equivalent of my role on KGS, if you like. He did not contact me to discuss my edits, simply removed them repeatedly. Nice to play God, isn't it? What is wrong with a bit of humour, unless it pricks the bubble of someone who wants to set up a page to gripe about people? When another person wrote a humourous complaint about me, that was removed too, and more seriously, when one of the admin denounced on the page answered the criticism, that was removed too. The page is now locked from further edits, in effect making a page in which public denouncements can be made, but not answered.
To quote from Morten's page, one of the admin at Senseis
Since this is a Wiki, you are of course welcome to amend the above and add all your praise/criticism you see fit.
I can of course be reached by e-mail.
-Morten
Really, we're allowed to amend it and add all praise/criticism as we see fit?
Actually apparently not, because if we take you at your word and put in an edit, and more importantly, an answer to the criticism of the admin concerned, your librarian silently removes things and then locks the page from further edits. Impressive for a page that offers an "open" forum for complaints, Morten- doesn't seem your librarian agrees with you.
So, well done senseis, you not only have a page for public denounciations, you can't see anything wrong with having it, your librarian prevents anyone from making entries he doesn't approve of, removes responses to the criticisms and prevents any further responses being posted. If you seriously don't see what is wrong with that, you might like to look up the meaning of the word "hypocrisy". Still, I think we already know: to quote from the above as given earlier:
"please, none of that "you could just say it to an admin". We all know how well that works :P)"
What a poor attitude.
It is a shame, because otherwise- what a great idea, and what a great project for go. KGS has a procedure for dealing with complaints about admin, and I support that. Does senseis have a procedure for complaining about the people who choose to remove edits to pages and then lock them? If so, let me know.
Finally, I'd be particularly interested to see if you have a page called "Senseis worst librarians and admin"- presumably you do, else you wouldn't have one for KGS admin, would you? I've written this all publicly because, this, apparently, is how you think it should be done.
Oh, and one last thing. Who is the KGS user who wrote this page? I don't see their KGS handle here, and there is no KGS account called "NoSide?."
The page description is very clear that it won't allow slurs but only complaints signed by an user and told with some detail. "Pees on lampposts" doesn't qualify, whoever the author might be, be it a drunken recently banned KGS user or a jokster KGS admin trying to obstruct the page.
Even the genuine complaints won't last forever. I went at great length some time ago (1) to remove tons of outdated complaints but (2) to capture some of the spirit by extracting proposals made in the process. But it seems removing these old complaints, and there were literally pages about some of your colleagues as you can see in the page history, qualified me as the evil guy. If you want to complain about this, please go forward.
The page already existed when I started to play Go. Nobody complained at that time, that the user didn't exist, so I assume he was a genuine KGS user at that time. Apparently, he isn't a KGS user anymore.
Best, Tapir.
P.S. I was never banned from KGS and never complained here about a KGS admin. And I never made an all-bold entry in Sensei's Library.
I put my comments in bold so that they could be distinguished from the text. Restore the text and tell me what font characteristics to use.
"We are funny today aren't we?" is an insulting comment, and you should apologise.
Again, do you have a complaint procedure for senseis?
Oh, and regarding your removal of material, you removed a genuine response by the admin concerned to the criticism raised in the past few days. As I said, making sarcastic and provocative comments is unworthy of a senseis.
I recently removed what amounted to a bunch of slurs in my eyes. I wish now I just had revived the previous version so they would still be visible for all to see and judge themselves. It is not technically possible for me to bring back an erased version, so if you feel strongly about it, you are free to write to Arno or Morten. You might risk, however, that then everyone would see the edit in question and you might lose the argument.
Writing about the issue at stake directly instead of trying to proof a point by writing funny slurs to each other among KGS admins would have been a better and considerably faster procedure.
Best, Tapir.
P.S. The fact that I instantly removed a slur against your person and soft-banned the perpetrator (now removed) should have convinced you that the policy is not to allow foul language. In fact, I had no idea this whole issue was directly connected to the edit earlier in that night until you said so today. At first I thought someone is trying to make a dumb joke after seeing the page show up on RecentChanges and I was quite surprised to see that the joksters were KGS admins.
The discuss page is advertised in bold letters on top of each page, I can hardly believe that you missed it, when you were already editing in obscure places like the intentions subpage. Another link, this one in the side bar, brings you to the page history, where you can find ample evidence that KGS admins did indeed answer to some complaints earlier, and are in no way disallowed from editing this page. They like everyone else are not free, however, to slur, not even each other.
I see you've now gone silent. You are missing the point: you have a page which you use for criticising admin on KGS, and you have used your powers to remove a response to this. Your attitude is an abuse of your powers, and your sarcastic put down underlines this. Using a page on senseis to criticise people whilst removing their right of reply is wrong, as is your lack of a response to my request for how to make a complaint about you. Ironic, isn't it, that you maintain pages complaining about unfair treatment, and yet you don't supply a complaint procedure, make sarcastic comments, and then stop replying altogether. Your conduct is typical of the behaviour you think should be publicly denounced.
Still no reply regarding your comment "we are funny today, aren't we?"
Typical of the conduct you criticise, isn't it? Be nasty, then just ignore the response. You are a hypocrite.
Just for public knowledge, Muttley banned me from KGS for basically repeating what is written here, when I logged in to clarify matters with him.
While I am understandably completely fed up with this issue now, Muttley is obviously still welcome to edit constructively on Sensei's Library. Though admittedly I don't think he is a suitable KGS admin.
Regards, Tapir
Well this argument seems to continue on pure inertia...
The page is cleared every once in a while and Tapir moving the content here is probably a better solution than letting it be lost in the edit history? I'm sure if the replies were relevant to a current complaint, they would remain.
Also the page was meant as a serious place for discussing admin behavior so that I understand the removal of the 'skipping stones' comments - You have to understand that when somebody gets kicked/ banned, they can only complain back to the admins who did it and unlike you being able to open your own page, we pretty much are stuck at your mercy on kgs!
Locking the page however prevents further complaints/ replies and pretty much prevents it from serving its purpose... Please unlock it (Or perhaps you (As I'm hardly here, anyway :) could get back the discussion of whether it's appropriate to have it at all)!
And yeah tapirs reply may have sounded rude, but I can't find a reason for it so (, reading both your comments, voiding studying for tests ;), it just seems that you approached the subject in a less than optimal mood and just let it kinda escalate without a reason.
Edit: To be honest I think this discussion shouldn't have been on senseis at all...
From my point of view if we are really intend to talk seriously about KGS admins we should make almost no edits (even if case is really old).Of course if ppl talk under their names or nicks from KGS,and/or support what they say in screens, then i think it should last here forever.
The worst thing in KGS policy is that when you complain about admins action, the one who jugde this admin, is admin who banned you.So i am very sorry for saying this Muttley but if "admins" here decided to delete sth and you strongly disagree, you shouldnt be angry that you cant complain on them(on KGS when you complain about BD you get response from BD, surprise), but according to Tapir you can make complain on him and write to "higher instances" :
![[ext]](images/extlink.gif)
http://senseis.xmp.net/?Morten
http://senseis.xmp.net/?Arno
But i have feeling that it was much better for many KGS admins that Tapir deleted all this stuff.
This is a seriously old thread and most of the references are hardly understandable now, given the unfortunate data loss suffered by SL (page history for a certain period is severely limited - but accessible via SL snapshots etc.) and that part of the relevant debate happened elsewhere. The bit available in the thread gives you a sufficient idea of the conduct of both parties. While most of the controversy was removed afterwards this thread remained for some unclear reason, most likely because removed forum entries don't leave a transparent history. I would, however, prefer for this thread to remain closed.
Any new discussions regarding this page, KGS administration or SL administration policy or whatever else are welcome in a new thread in the most suitable place.
yea muttley is -definately- the worst! banned me for a week for saying a "mean word" in context, and not apologizing to him(!) in game Chat (not private),also wanted me to acknowledge the rules , again in game Chat, then he makes a joke in game Chat and bans me... petty man that guy, shouldnt be admin, shouldnt be there at all.. well there is always IGS
I asked Muttley a question and he bans me for asking, after he BOLDLY announces in a room that someone made death threats. I asked him why someone would do that as people don't usually do that in a vacuum without some provocation. it's still wrong mind you but i was merely curious.
Guess what happened. booted.
What an uberdouche. They are all pretty douchey, but this one along with herod and ericj...KGS is an effing mess as far as admins are concerned.
irony of ironies i come here and read a 10 year old thread about him complaining that senseis kgs complaint page exists and that nothign can be done about it.
Kinda like how we all feel when the complaints procedure is completely and utterly ignored by admins.
what a mewling quim
I asked Muttley a question and he bans me for asking, after he BOLDLY announces in a room that someone made death threats. I asked him why someone would do that as people don't usually do that in a vacuum without some provocation. it's still wrong mind you but i was merely curious.
Guess what happened. booted.
What an uberdouche. They are all pretty douchey, but this one along with herod and ericj...KGS is an effing mess as far as admins are concerned.
irony of ironies i come here and read a 10 year old thread about him complaining that senseis kgs complaint page exists and that nothign can be done about it.
Kinda like how we all feel when the complaints procedure is completely and utterly ignored by admins.
what a mewling quim
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