Meta Discussion
Wikipedia [#1673]
It strikes me that articles at Wikipedia do not always seem SL worth referring to, even though the content is very similar: as if authors forget or ignore SL.
Examples:
-
![[ext]](images/extlink.gif)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_variant - no explicit reference at all to the SL main page, even if far more material exists here (although three variants refer to an SL page)
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_equipment
I have no idea of the exact coverage of Go at Wikipedia, but it seems to me that there is a close mapping between both sites.
Nevertheless, this brings me to suggest to introduce a tag such as wikipedia:<page> to ease linking to Wikipedia (a la fr: tag).
A good reason for such a tag is to make it more easily to track Wikipedia, even if this might shift the attention from SL to Wikipedia; I think that SL users should become more aware of WP, and SL will benefit from this awareness through more linking back to SL (even if there seem to be legal issues around linking of which I do not grab all the details). It might be nice to be able to specify a tag in the left margin, similar to the language links.
As a side issue, while reading Hu's homepage on WP, I came across the Go WikiProject and then some more pages:
- Wikipedia WikiProject Go
- Wikipedia / Copy Discussion.
- SL is not Wikipedia
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Go#Sensei.27s_Library_content
BTW - some well known SL contributor left SL for WP, I can't remember who it was, but there's a page on SL that has more details on that, couldn't find it either.
BTW - some well known SL contributor left SL for WP, I can't remember who it was, but there's a page on SL that has more details on that, couldn't find it either.
Do you mean Charles Matthews?
I've to admit that often the wp pages aren't really worth linking to... i only found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_at_the_1st_World_Mind_Sports_Games which is better than the SL coverage imho.
And, we don't need a tag. You can easily construct a wp-link-template, I can do as well. But as I said, more often than not the WP isn't an additional resource.
happy new year 2009, tapir
edit: I admit I wasn't up to date with the Wikipedia entries, but it is really not difficult to make sth like {{wikipedia|ARTICLE_NAME|LANGUAGE_KEY}} which links to ARTICLE_NAME in the corresponding wikipedia. I don't think this is worse than a special [en.wp:ARTICLE_NAME] tag.
Apart from being an active contributor to Sensei's, I am also an active contributor to wikipedia. I have recently removed almost all references to Sensei's Library from the main Go article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game)
The reason for doing this is wikipedia's "Reliable Sources" policy. In a nutshell, reliable sources are those that are peer-reviewed, those published by reliable scientific institutions, or those by previously published authors that are considered authorities in their field. Sensei's does not meet those criteria, and thus cannot be used for references in wikipedia. It can still be used in footnotes (eg: "For more info, see SL's article on X") and in the external links section (further reading).
So if you feel that SL is lacking from an article in wikipedia, feel free to put a specific link in the "External links" section.
Wow. I don't believe it. Some reasonable person believing in the "reliable sources" policy of Wikipedia. One of the worst policies ever over there, in my humble opinion. With dozens of people without any knowledge at all now roaming the Wikipedia to delete insights that are not found in major newspapers (they are reliable according to german WP).
Oh, I'm not saying I believe in the reliable sources policy, there are certainly a lot of problems with it. I do not have the illusion that I can change the rules at wikipedia, so for me it's simply a matter of "playing by the rules". For example: I want the Go article to receive "featured article" status, to get it more attention. So if the WP rules say that the references should be "reliable" (according to their policy on that), then I play by those rules and try to find "reliable" sources.
Bob McGuigan: I agree with your comment about reliable sources. Our big problem in writing go articles for wikipedia is the scarcity of Western language sources. There are enough English language books on technique but that is not the focus of wp. For history and general go culture the number of sources is very small. For Japan we can get by with Invincible, references to Go World and The Go Player's Almanac but sources for Korea and China are very scarce. GoGoD has a lot of material and John Fairbairn is certainly an authority but ... Citing sources in Japanese, Korean, or Chinese might support articles written in English but few readers could use the references.
Regarding reliable sources, though, I know plenty of people who turn up their noses at wikipedia, considering it unreliable for academic purposes :)
Actually there is already quite a trove of material in Wikipedia, and some are more updated than the corresponding material at SL. I have on occasion updated a few SL pages by "copying" material from Wikipedia (these are mainly list information such as yearly tournament results that can also be obtained from elsewhere).
My comment on Wikipedia Go pages is that linkage between pages is quite poor. In most cases, I cannot find the wanted material by following links from the "Go (game)" page. If SL material can be updated using Wikipedia articles as an aid, then this can't be a bad thing.
There is the go news page here and several tournament pages, but nearly nobody cares about updating. (Thanks to Valerio for the new pages!) I update sometimes sth about my favourite pros, but we aren't enough contributors here to be up to date. And this is the bigger problem.
Lets not forget hyperpapeterie, who does good work on updating the go news article.
But yes, more contributors would be most welcome. It has its ups and downs, and right now I think were on a bit of an up. I'm seeing some new names contributing, and a lot of good work has been done with the templates (eg, the book template has been put to very good use!)
I don't see that you're saving much time by using it instead of normal links, but here it is...
the Wikipedia template?.
As I've written before just {{wikipedia|ARTICLE_NAME|LANGUAGE}} while LANGUAGE is optional for non-english Wikipedias. Maybe we can rename it wp template than it is 7 digits less :) The only feature is, we can make a search after the template thus creating a list of Wikipedia links in SL.
Cheers Tapir.
![[Welcome to Sensei's Library!]](images/stone-hello.png "Sensei's Library")