Forum for Umezawa Yukari
Dispute over meaning of given name Yukari [#16157]
My addition:
Her given name Yukari (由香里) is composed of three characters yu/由 (reason, origin) ka/香 (fragrant, scent), and ri/里 (village). So it gives the impression of both a sense of purpose and the pleasant aromas of a village.
Hnishy changed it to:
Her given name Yukari means “human connection”. 由香里 uses
Manyogana, an ancient system of writing Japanese with kanji sounds—kanjis in it have no meanings. So her name gives some archaic and educated impression (at least to equally educated people).
I asked Chat GPT for an evaluation of that claim, and it responded:
The claim is somewhat misleading. While Manyōgana (万葉仮名) is indeed an ancient system of using kanji purely for their phonetic value (as seen in the oldest Japanese texts like the Manyōshū), it is not accurate to say that the kanji in 由香里 (Yukari) "have no meanings."
Breaking Down 由香里 (Yukari)
- 由 (yu) – Can mean "reason," "cause," or "origin".
- 香 (ka) – Means "fragrance" or "aroma".
- 里 (ri) – Means "village" or "hometown".
These characters do have meanings, and modern Japanese speakers generally associate them with those meanings. While it's possible that some names are chosen primarily for their phonetic value, 由香里 does not fit the Manyōgana definition because each kanji in the name carries a recognizable meaning in contemporary Japanese.
Does the Name Sound Archaic or Educated?
由香里 is a fairly traditional and elegant name, but not necessarily "archaic." Many women born in the late 20th century have similar names with 里 (ri) or 香 (ka) in them.
It might give an "educated" impression due to the kanji choice, particularly 由 (yu) and 里 (ri), which are often associated with literary and classical names.
However, it is not written in Manyōgana style, since Manyōgana typically used kanji with little regard for meaning—such as writing Yamato as 夜麻登 or sakura as 佐久良 in the Manyōshū.
Conclusion
The claim is incorrect in saying that the kanji "have no meanings", and it overstates the connection to Manyōgana. However, the part about it giving a slightly "educated" or "classical" impression to knowledgeable people has some validity.
hnishy is correct, though perhaps his statement was too terse (perhaps better rendered as "the kanjis are not intended to have their base meanings." Words such as yukari and the similar kizuna have strong associations for the Japanese, and are full of meanings and associations even to people who know no characters. The use of Manyogana is common in certain circles but is far from the only reason for choice of characters that are not intended to be taken literally. This applies to Chinese and Korean names, too. Factors such as superstition and taboo characters can come into it, and a once common reason was that characters were chosen as numbers, as a way of keeping track of family history - e.g. a person in the 49th generation might be given a name with character 49 in a famous text (in the days when such texts were routinely memorised), but even today a character may be chosen simply as an allusion to e.g. a grandparent. It might be added, too, that name characters were exempted from the Toyo Kanji reforms, and also quite a few characters have changed in meaning (and/or associations) since classical times, but people are still taught the classical senses, and these can be retained in names. Characters also have many more (still available) meanings than the ones given here. E.g. in one dictionary I have at hand, 由 has 24 meanings. The primary one is 'depend on' (yoru, chinamu). Other primary ones are 'to go' (yuku) or 'to use' (mochiiru) or 'road' (michi). Others are 'sprout' (mebae) and 'to help' (tasukeru). There are even technical meanings such as 'a ridge that runes north to south'. It is also common as a preposition ('from' or 'by means' of'). Fortune tellers were often listened to when it comes to suitable name meanings, and in modern times we have a modern equivalent who write airport books on suitable names. Sometimes, for example, characters for a given name may be chosen to marry up with the family name. Names are often changed for reasons of changing fortune (e.g. Fujisawa Kuranosuke to Hosai), or written a certain way for artistic reasons or to avoid confusion with other people. Some names are misread. E.g. Fujisawa Shuko for Fujisawa Hideyuki. Names are messy in many languages and we have a similar thing in English: Smythe for Smith or Chumley for Cholmondeley. Was Kirk Douglas really meant to be taken as Church Douglas? Etc, etc. Writing about name meanings in the simplistic manner used on SL is pseudo-science and can create a strong but totally false sense that what is written here is accurate. At the very least, "health warnings" should be added.
hnishy is correct, though perhaps his statement was too terse (perhaps better rendered as "the kanjis are not intended to have their base meanings." Words such as yukari and the similar kizuna have strong associations for the Japanese, and are full of meanings and associations even to people who know no characters. The use of Manyogana is common in certain circles but is far from the only reason for choice of characters that are not intended to be taken literally. This applies to Chinese and Korean names, too. Factors such as superstition and taboo characters can come into it, and a once common reason was that characters were chosen as numbers, as a way of keeping track of family history - e.g. a person in the 49th generation might be given a name with character 49 in a famous text (in the days when such texts were routinely memorised), but even today a character may be chosen simply as an allusion to e.g. a grandparent. It might be added, too, that name characters were exempted from the Toyo Kanji reforms, and also quite a few characters have changed in meaning (and/or associations) since classical times, but people are still taught the classical senses, and these can be retained in names. Characters also have many more (still available) meanings than the ones given here. E.g. in one dictionary I have at hand, 由 has 24 meanings. The primary one is 'depend on' (yoru, chinamu). Other primary ones are 'to go' (yuku) or 'to use' (mochiiru) or 'road' (michi). Others are 'sprout' (mebae) and 'to help' (tasukeru). There are even technical meanings such as 'a ridge that runes north to south'. It is also common as a preposition ('from' or 'by means' of'). Fortune tellers were often listened to when it comes to suitable name meanings, and in modern times we have a modern equivalent who write airport books on suitable names. Sometimes, for example, characters for a given name may be chosen to marry up with the family name. Names are often changed for reasons of changing fortune (e.g. Fujisawa Kuranosuke to Hosai), or written a certain way for artistic reasons or to avoid confusion with other people. Some names are misread. E.g. Fujisawa Shuko for Fujisawa Hideyuki. Names are messy in many languages and we have a similar thing in English: Smythe for Smith or Chumley for Cholmondeley. Was Kirk Douglas really meant to be taken as Church Douglas? Etc, etc. Writing about name meanings in the simplistic manner used on SL is pseudo-science and can create a strong but totally false sense that what is written here is accurate. At the very least, "health warnings" should be added. JohnF
JohnF: did you mean to post the same thing twice? But thanks for the information. I guess ChatGPT and other large language modules are only as good as the data they are programmed with.
All the same, it did seem that the Kanji characters of Yukari would be a plausible meaning for a girl’s name. It would not be anything like the Hanzi characters for the Chinese names of countries or renditions of non-Chinese names, where they are chosen for phonetic reasons. It can be quite amusing, even for Chinese native speakers, to take the Hanzi according to their literal meanings, e.g. Online Chinese teacher Jessie Zhang.
On a similar issue related to another name, do you have any information on the name of Rin Kaiho’s wife Wáng Láidì (王来弟)? She is the youngest of three daughters, and the Hanzi of her given name mean literally “come little brother”. I know that Chinese culture has a strong preference for sons (and with the one-child policy, it has led to 35 million more men than women in China), but it would seem unkind to name a daughter just by reference to a hoped-for son to come. However, Jessie Zhang has a skit satirizing choosing names by asking a fortune teller and gives such an example. Many women with names like that, as well as 招弟 (Zhāodì, "summon younger brother") or 盼弟 (Pàndì, "hope for younger brother") have spoken about how their names that convey “We wanted a boy rather than you” made them feel unwanted or lesser in their own families.
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