Forum for Rules of go - second tutorial
How to solve disagreements [#1285]
If it is not mentioned in the first tutorial that the Japanese and Chinese rules differ, should not it be mentioned in the second tutorial?
And a second question, I heard about at least three ways how to solve the situation that follow when both players pass and then they disagree whether a group is dead. In my opinion all three procedures can give a different result in some situations and I would like to hear which of them is part of the "oficial" rules. And maybe it would be worth mentioning somewhere in SL - I feel that Senseis should have a page which describes rules FULLY (including this rare situation when players disagree).
The three ways are:
1. The players determine whether the group is alive or dead (until both are certain that they know the status correctly)
2. The players try to determine whether the group is alive or dead, but the may not "undo". So when I make a wrong move during determining whether the group is dead, and so I fail to kill the opponent's dead group, then this group counts as dead (even if both my opponent and I then agree that althoug it would have been dead if both players did not mistake AFTER the two passes).
3. The players continue in play, but each pass is punished by the fact that opponent gains one point to his score. After two consecutive passes happen again, the score is counted from the CURRENT board position (unlike the first two ways which count the score based on the board position which was after the first occurence of two consecutive passes).
I will be glad if you email me if you know which of these three ways is the right one according to official rules. (pjel at-sign centrum.cz). Thank you
Well, its an incredibly complicated affair, and is exceedingly rare (I have never seen a disagreement in my 12 years of playing go, not in my own games and not in other games at a tournament). As such, I think mentioning it here can only confuse readers.
For a really thorough treatment of the subject, you might read ![[ext]](images/extlink.gif)
The formal Japanese 2003 rules, but be prepared to take quite a lot of time to understand that text.
I think the name of the "Japanese 2003 rules" is a bit misleading. As I understand it, that page is a set of Japanese-style rules proposed by Robert Jasiek but not actually used in real life. The official rules used in Japanese tournaments haven't changed since 1989, and can be found at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/%7Ewjh/go/rules/Japanese.html
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!
In answer to the original poster, your method 3 is similar to AGA rules.
I can't help but to pop the question: you never played at Yahoo before? =)
Actually I don't really know the answer to Reflame's question. The main difficulty here lies in the fact that the game ends by mutual agreement, rather than a clearly stated objective like in other board games. Luckily, the majority of the Go players play with mutual respect.
Uhm, no. Actually, I have never played at Yahoo :)
In my experience, anyone who is at least 20 kyu is aware enough of life & death issues to not run into disputes over this other than in exceptional cases such as eternal life or strange cycles or so. And when weaker players run into disputes, it is usually not because the situation is complicated, but because the players do not understand the rules fully (especially seki can cause this). In such cases, simply asking a stronger player to help will usually resolve the issue.
I have actually mailed Reflame as he requested, and explained that the issue is exceedingly rare in normal play.
Actually, these days I tend to play at Yahoo simply because I play so infrequently. That is, so infrequently that most servers either erase my rank or scores or erase my account altogether, such that I have to play from the bottom up all over again. I am actually interested to find out, what good Go servers keep the player rank if he doesn't even log in for several months or more? I suppose, this question could be a BQM on its own.
Well, Yahoo still has a lot of cheaters who don't have the kind of respect normally found in Go players, and they just want to rack up points. I don't think I need to elaborate on this point further. To them, I usually just say, go get the points you so badly want. However, Yahoo does have its own share of pretty strong players and so it is still possible to have an occasional fun game. Definitely, Yahoo is not an excellent server, but it has something that suits my needs very well.
... so infrequently that most servers either erase my rank or scores or erase my account altogether...
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