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Go Seigen and the Honinbo [#2049]

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hyperpapeterie: Go Seigen and the Honinbo (2009-11-19 07:06) [#6589]

An external site ([ext] http://www.gogameworld.com/article/gomyth.php) made a casual reference to Go Seigen being excluded from the the Honinbo tournament. I had not heard this before. I was wondering it it was true, and it was a part of his status as a foreign player within the Nihon Ki-in.

I didn't want to clutter his page with my lack of knowledge, but if true, it might be worth mentioning the conditions under which he played in Japan.

HermanHiddema: Re: Go Seigen and the Honinbo (2009-11-19 10:24) [#6591]

GoGoD confirms this:

"Problems connected with his support for an anti-American religious group and wrangles over his citizenship in the years after the war kept him from go for long periods...

...problems of status persisted and he stayed independent of the Nihon Ki-in - he was once likened to the house professional of the Yomiuri Shinbun - and he was excluded from the Honinbo for a time, although a regular "prize" then for a new Honinbo was a three-game match with Go.
tapir: Re: Go Seigen and the Honinbo (2009-11-19 14:10) [#6592]

"Problems connected with his support for an anti-American religious group" - I want to know more about this religious group, sounds fascinating and I wonder how this can effect the Nihon Ki-in at all, were they sponsored by the U.S.?

HermanHiddema: Re: Go Seigen and the Honinbo (2009-11-19 15:00) [#6593]

Note that his involvement with this religious group and his independence of the Nihon Kiin are not claimed to be related by GoGoD. GoGoD simply gives several reasons that Go Seigen did not play as often as you'd expect.

According to the [ext] Pieter Mioch Interview (See part three):

"After the second world war, he played less often, by a long chalk, than the average pro. He was at this time very preoccupied with religion, specifically the Manji (Red Swastika) movement.".

According to Gobase, Go Seigen became a naturalized Japanese citizen in 1936 and again in 1979, so there was some problem surrounding his citizenship somewhere in between, but I wouldn't know the exact period, or what the issue was. GoGoD mentions this simply as "in the years after the war".

Note also that Go Seigen did participate in the first Honinbo tournament (see: Honinbo#toc3).

reply Where to look for details (2009-11-19 15:30) [#6594]

Much of this is covered in my book Kamakura, and there are further details in Final Summit (Go-Takagawa) which is due to appear any moment (November 2009). This adds substantially to the GoGoD account.

The situation was much more complicated than appears from the one-liners give here. You can only really make sense of it if you also know the context.

This page also makes a major mistake in risking conflating two religious movements Go was connected with. The one that caused problems was Jiukyo.

HermanHiddema: Re: Where to look for details (2009-11-19 15:43) [#6595]

Thanks for the clarification, John. I'll check Kamakura tonight.

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