Forum for Sakugen
Sth strange in one of his castle game [#3114]
Position from castle game 1698-01-01 against Yasui Santetsu:
![[Diagram]](diagrams/3/c98940f9fefe28c5b4c0b7001ac3e158.png)
White has 16 prisoners,Black has 19 prisoners (not including prisoners on board) The records say W+11, but on board i can count W+12: White top left : 19 points, White top right : 7 points, White lower right:11 points, White middle : 24 points(with prisoners on board), Total: 77 points Black top right+middle: 13 points, Black left : 9 points, Black bottom +right : 24 points (with prisoners ob board), Total: 65 points,
Overall W+12.What i am missing?Is there a mistake in record, mistake in writing a result, or mistake in my count(that is wha i suppose, but i dont see it)?
Miscounting white center, I would say.
Guys, any ideas?If no, i will post it on main page of Sakugen, maybe then sb will find whats going on in this game.
It is often tricky to count and get the announced result in these situations. However, assuming I didn't make a mistake, I count the territory for White in the center group to be 23 points, not 24 points as you said.
![[Diagram]](diagrams/18/8332961072cd646d94a92316ac53e953.png)
Up, is corrected board position.
I am extremely sorry, but when i was making a board, i made a mistake.There should be one more black stone in white middle area (move 67 in game record,M8 place).Now its 24 i believe.
Game record can be found here:
![[ext]](images/extlink.gif)
http://web2go.board19.com/gopro/go_view.php?id=46126
Edit: yes, i forget about 2 white stones in thath territory also(i edited board position again).I double checked, and i think there is no more such a mistakes. False eyes in this sitauation are of course points, black is not forced to connect there.
I counted the Black territory in the lower side and middle-right to be 22 points, not 24 as per your count. I wonder whether you counted kakeme (false eye) as points.
Sorry again - i corrected and edited diagram.In the case you found one more mistake, you can always check the full record of game, from link i provided. Thx guys for responses, but as you can see i am quite obsessed with go from old times so i feel i must know the truth about this ^^.I hope we will solve this!
+ Black has two more points on the top than you reported :)
![[Diagram]](diagrams/29/af945ea4eb5d62a95938281e839fdbb7.png)
Yes, you are totally correct, i made another mistake when making this board position.Up is i hope correct board final position.But maybe i will post screen of final board position from Cgoban?I think that would be easier:
![[ext]](http://i.imgur.com/cvpkHgA.png)
http://i.imgur.com/cvpkHgA.png
Hey guys, what do you think about it?Sorry for insisting but i am really obsessed with that ^^.There is another one castle game i have feeling of wrong result (Honinbo Genjo-Hayashi Tetsugen, 1816 W+12, but i must check it more to be sure sth is wrong).
Edit: its still author of whole thread, sth logged me out :).
There is nothing new about this observation. It was remarked on in Segoe's Castle Games and he says it's either W+12 or some other error has crept in.
There are quite a lot of similar cases, listed in GoGoD of course, along with variations in moves and dates, or examples where moves must be missing.
These games are very old from the days when there were no photocopiers, so copies were done by hand.
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