3-4 point high approach, two-space high pincer, bump
tderz Copied from Quick questions:
reply139.55.34.248: 34 high approach, two space high pincer, bump permissible? (2005-11-02 06:41) [313]
noseki? ladders are good for white. can white play this way if she wants to keep black low on the left side?
tderz: There are actually some examples (5 on gobase) in Go history when Black
is one more to the left (c).
Black has basically two choices: a & b.
tderz:
has to be answered by
(not true, there is also a game where White jumps to a), vice versa
.
After
, White has the normal techniques hanging conection b and the double-hane c as alternative continuations.
Both end in (very local) sente for White.
tderz: this could be considered a natural continuation for both.
What will be White's next move?
tderz: After
, Black defends at
and White can counter-pincer
at
.
Actually I did not find any professional games with
in this position, only if
is at a (
is then at c).
Tesuji
tderz: If Black does not defends at
above, then
here is tesuji.
Inoue Ichiro - Kitani Minoru (09.11.1927)
Event Oteai,1974,Japan, Black Ishii Kunio, 8p White Yoshida Yoichi, 7p Komi 0 Date 1974-04-18 Place Japan Result W+R
The next moves were White a and Black b!
Pushing through
tderz: If Black pushes through with
and cuts at
,
then White can get some grip on
, because she is assured of an atari a. Hence white could extend with
to
or so.
Often black a, white b is exchanged.
Tewari Analysis
tderz: Sometimes, White also starts like this, because she knows about black's weakness around a,b.
tderz: Black
is too far away from the white mini-wall to be efficiently controlled by
.
Also
is too far away from white allies that the whole procedure would work.
Hence, my conclusion is:
If Black made the two-space-high-pincer, the bump is not advisable.
Alex: I agree with your conclusion. How is this tewari, though? I thought tewari meant analysis by either changing the order of moves or removing superflous pairs (one White, one Black) of stones, neither of which you've done here.
Andy Pierce: follow-up question: if the bump is not advisable, but white really wants to keep black low on the left side as shown, is there a better alternative than the bump, or does white just accept that this achieves her goal, at a local loss?
Rich: The two-space jump keeps black low.
tderz to Andy: as Rich says, if you simply jump, you keep black low (if that is your aim). Also the one-point-jump will do. Of course, Black could also jump to j, that's another story.
After e.g.
-
, White could exchange a for b, then counter pincer at c .
tderz: After
-
, White could slide to a.
It is important only to exchange
for
, as white-m - black-n would be aji-keshi.
If Black ever peeps at p, then white can connect nicely with q-r-s and Black seems wanting to cut a bamboo (bad shape).
Furthermore, if Black ever cuts some stones off from the center, White still has a sabaki-aji for making life in the corner with White double-hane n.
Game record
Here is the game record in question:
Andy Pierce: I played
thinking to press black low on the bottom side since
and
are both low. When black played the two-space high pincer
my thinking was that I can't really play the one point jump due to
, but maybe the lighter two point jump would have been ok. On the other hand I could have approached at a before
to see how black responds first.
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