Amateur Fuseki 4
Could someone please comment on this fuseki? Above all I would be interested in general principles (e.g. the timing of making a shimari, length of extensions etc).
Andrew Grant:
is premature. There is no need to invade this early. Better to make a second shimari at c. (It's possible that White should have played
at c to prevent this.) Once
is on the board I would like to play
at d to deny Black a base. If Black jumps out to e, then White can extend to
.
Bill:
makes a double shimari, but then
is ideal for White.
Maybe it's wrong, but I hate to let my opponent make an ideal play. ;-)
How about
? If
, then
and Black has prevented White's shimari. If
is at a, then Black can be satisfied to have prevented White's ideal position on the right and can play
.
Dieter: ... and amateur fuseki it is because no whole board matches this fuseki in a gobase search.
So I did a right half board search and found 4 games, one of which has this composition. Notice that
is not at 4-4 and
not at 3-4.
-
followed. But there was one almost perfect match of the proposed diagram:
In this game, Black invaded with
. The only difference here is the position of
. Given it is in the opposite corner, a lot can be said for
if
is at 4-4, I guess. Still, one game is not enough a basis for proving ideas so we better think about it ourselves.
I like a better than b because it is severer against the corner: I don't want b to end up lonely and weak as in Bill's diagram. I like c second best after a, because the continuation as in the first pro game White d, Black e would be better for Black if the left corner stone were at hoshi.
I think the "normal" reponse would now be "a" above but I wanted to experiment a little bit and played "b" - was that bad?
Isn't black in trouble when white plays
at
, since the ladder is bad for black?
Andrew Grant: Another way to play instead of
above:
If Black plays the usual joseki he ends up highly overconcentrated because of the marked stone.
![[Diagram]](../../diagrams/16/58f8cd66cc4680b9f12dada2a4d9ced5.png)
is premature. There is no need to invade this early. Better to make a second shimari at c. (It's possible that White should have played
at d to deny Black a base. If Black jumps out to e, then White can extend to ![[Diagram]](../../diagrams/16/af95f65b4096b0add1ff120bd8ef7f7d.png)
![[Diagram]](../../diagrams/33/9b36e5ef3cb23ed8c91fa0595f764a96.png)
![[Diagram]](../../diagrams/29/7835fbaf049df43cd1464232475f6b5e.png)
![[Diagram]](../../diagrams/31/811bea42b216a07b88f8ebd61eb89719.png)
![[Diagram]](../../diagrams/5/6b6062ddc4901b031a5c5174db3aab21.png)
at
, since the ladder is bad for black?
![[Diagram]](../../diagrams/45/469fbede24ff59ff434ac50f3e36a54c.png)
![[Diagram]](../../diagrams/37/30e8b02858f4fefcc1a294da7571fcb2.png)
![[Diagram]](../../diagrams/48/77e070d40c092f177bd82892e8a1f63b.png)
2024 the Authors,
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