Communicating with Idiotic Abbreviations
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There's nothing I enjoy more than playing a game with someone online and when it's over, having them thank me by way of typing "gg" [good game] or -- even better -- "thx" [thanks]. This allows me to take out my old Little Orphan Annie decoder ring and translate their idiotic shorthand into real human language.
Of course, it's completely understandable why these people don't spell out their words the way the rest of us language-based people do. It takes an incredibly long time to type each of the letters required for "Thank you for the game", whereas "gg" is a matter of simply tapping the G key twice. And with all that extra time, these individuals are assuredly seeking cures for major world diseases, composing beautiful works of art, and making their community a better place.
Now, for those who don't understand irony:
HEY! Lazy morons! Write out your words! Typing "thx" is supremely insincere -- you might as well not bother "thanking" the person at all. Show some respect!
Brevity is the soul of wit.
-- William Shakespeare, Hamlet
Never use a long word when a diminutive one will do.
-- William L. Safire, Great Rules of Writing
It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word.
-- Andrew Jackson
unkx80: I think I would prefer to know as many abbreviations as I can... GL! =) [good luck].
Nando: Well, I can't agree with you about abbreviations. For one, they are usual in many online communities like IRC for instance and I've never found them to be considered impolite. Second, when I type "thx", I'm always sincere. Otherwise, just as you mentioned, I'm even a lot more lazy, I just don't type it at all. And after all, the developers can easily add some auto-completion/alias thingies in the software clients (just like in mIRC) and there you go: you will see the complete sentences, sure, but the guys still only typed 2-3 chars. So what now?
I often feel some "frustation", though. IMHO (do you know this one? ;p "In My Humble Opinion"), "thx" is the strict minimum, but it's simply not enough. The problem is more the complete lack of any sort of comment about the game when it's finished. I always feel kind of sad in such cases. It's not like I would want to have a deep post-mortem analysis for each of my games, but a simple "fun fight" or whatever comment about an important sequence in the game would be quite nice. Of course, the problem is often that you can't communicate with your partner/opponent, because he or she simply doesn't speak any of the languages you know.
Keep cool and be a bit lenient :)
Scartol: The comments about decoding the messages were hyperbole -- I was exaggerating for comic effect. Of course I know what tftg [thanks for the game] and imho and cul8r [see you later] and all the other cute tricks and trinkets and whatnot.
And you're right -- macros are just as bad. If you're really grateful for the game, take a few seconds and express it with actual words. If not, don't say anything at all (or maybe tell the person why you're not grateful). Typing in abbreviations is like only sending your mother an online card for her birthday.
If speaking in abbreviations isn't considered rude on IRC or bulletin boards, maybe it's because the people in them are just so used to them and so they have become a custom in their own right. However, that's not the case in online Go, and IMHO it's rude to assume that your opponent will understand and/or appreciate them.
Grumble.
MrKoala: I agree it can be considered rude to use abbreviations, but it is not always a matter of "I don't really mean to thank you but I have to in order to be polite". It can also be a matter of time. I mean I can afford to type "Thank you for the game", but some people don't type as fast as I do, and it sometimes takes a lot of time to even click in the edit box and then let the mouse go, look for the 't',... There are times some people spent something like one minute to type a nice thanking note. So abbreviations can be useful, sometimes.
Gag, I hate having to reply to people's "Thanks for the game" and "Good luck have fun". At first I repeated the same to them. But every opponent says those exact same words before and after every game it becomes so redundant. I feel like not responding to them at all and just completly ignoring them but that would be "rude". So I just use the "gg" and "thx". I could be upset by people who actually think that I should not respond to them at all. But how can using the same acronyms be more insulting than using the same phrases. Am I supposed to feel gratitude by the extra keys they had to type. I could care less if they thank me for kicking their cyber-butts.
Scartol: I think this comment shows a severe lack of respect for the traditions of Go, and for the people you play. When you "kick their cyber-butts," you are doing something for them, and they are doing something for you -- you are each helping the other hone his/her Go skill. I'm shocked by the callous attitude that you don't owe your opponent either respect or gratitude.
Now, I recognize that there isn't too much difference between typing "thx" (or executing a macro) and typing "Thank you for the game". But there is a difference. I think those of us who are part of this game's noble tradition owe it to ourselves, each other, and those who passed it along to show it the proper respect.
Heavenguard: When I started playing Go some time ago, I was very humble and with a lot of humility (due to my lack of skill and knowledge) and so I would say "Thank you for the game" with all sincerity. Now that I've played a touch more, I still say it, because it doesn't matter how good I get at it, if it weren't for that person playing with me, I wouldn't have played that game! I've come to expect it at the end of the game and I feel sort of offended if the other doesn't say thank you; I find it impolite.
Nobleness, respect, humbleness... yeah, whatever. This game is going the way of the dodo for a reason. We need to scrap these humble asian traditions of "enlightnment." and get some trash talking going on. Word to 'ya mother sux0rZ [suckers].
C.S. Graves: The young folk do find being rude much more glamourous than being courteous. Then they grow up.
Dieter: Yesterday I played a game on KGS with a guy in the Hikaru-fanclub room. This guy used all the possible emoticons you can imagine. I told him I didn't understand half of it. He asked if I did IRC. I said "What's IRC?"
It was all very sympathetic but then you see that even this self proclaimed net addict has trouble keeping up the pace.
Madoka: IRC stands for Internet Relay Chat. It's not a new thing at all; AFAIK [As far as I know] it's as old as e-mail. With the advent of IM [Internet messaging] however IRC has to be relegated to a place where people trade warez [pirated software] and other illegal material.
Karsten: Even though there is warez trading on IRC (mainly on Undernet), it is not a major aspect of IRC. Dating back as far as 1988 ( http://www.ircnet.org/History/jarkko.html), it is a community with a culture where knowledge exchange is just as important as chatting with friends. Sadly, to the new generation of internet users, IRC is mostly unknown or just another IM service. Seems like IRC shares Usenet's fate there.
Confused: IRC misses being as old email by some 20 years. The IRC protocol standard (RFC 1459) was defined in 1993, whereas the first standards concerning e-mail date back to 1971-1973 (RFC 196, 524, 561 etc.). SMTP (RFC 821) came quite late in 1988.
Tim Brent: I believe another reason, especially in places like IGS, is that the vast majority on the server either do not know English at all or not well enough to feel comfortable with the wording and therefore feel the abbreviations are safer. When I was active, if I played a Japanese player, I would type "Domo Arigato", the Japanese for thank you.
ian: On a general point, isn't it interesting that when people complain about things like gg and thx for being abbreviations/acronyms, they never stop to think that saying thanks is infact an abbreviation in itself? How many people say "I give (my) thanks to you" after the game?
Charles: Well, no, it's not interesting. It may be marginally ironic. ISIADOYPOV.
Dieter: Wild guess: In summary, I am disagreeing on your point of view ? M, C, YDRHRYOAY.
Charles: The intended reading: I suppose it all depends on your point of view. OC, if languages other than English are allowed too ...
Confused: At least, thanks is an english word which can be properly pronounces, unlike *gg*, thx and similar character clusters.
M: gg is used in a lot of game/pvp environments. We don't usually pronounce it gg in our head, but just as good game. For me, seeing the phrase "gg" is just as good as seeing "good game", if not better. It's not too trendy to type the whole thing out. Internet culture people. While you're visiting to play your Go, get used to it. Also imho is "in my honest opinion".
Search for acronyms
Benjamin Geiger: IMNSHO, acronyms aren't bad, if they're used as part of a longer dialogue. I spend plenty of time on IRC, and I can't be bothered to type out "in my not so humble opinion" every time. However, it does irritate me when, after a game, I say "Hey, nice game... you really had me scared in the upper left, what did I do wrong?" and my opponent responds with something like "kthxbye". Grr.
Tamsin: I know what you mean but often online your opponent cannot understand much English and so doesn't have any idea what you are talking about. If they respond with "thanks" and "bye" then at least they're trying to be polite. Perhaps we can say that the golden rule for 'net chat is give the other person the benefit of the doubt.
amc: I think the main problem at issue here is not the use of abbreviations per se, but the lack of patience and sincerity they often carry. I couldn't care less if someone tells me "gg, thx" and then spends 5 minutes with me talking about it. To me, that simply meant a use of shorthand to reflect genuine enjoyment. It's the unwillingness to learn and teach that bothers me. It's the arrogance of thinking that you have nothing to learn with a weaker player. For the record, my last game on KGS was against a player even worse than me. I mean, the guy tried to save stones in atari on the second line facing the wall. Still, teaching him at the end, discussing variations, showing him critical points, was probably the most enlightening experience I had in there. Still, we both "thx"ed each other ;)
Xingta: As a newbie to internet Go, but not to life in general, I'd say etiquette and sporting behaviour are vital if you wish to have a good experience playing games, not just Go. The problem with acronyms is that they're hard to understand if not previously explained in the same text. Txtabbrs are equally hard to translate and all jargon, including the use of Japanese, Chinese & Korean words in Go terminology serves to place a person inside or outside of the group that speaks that vernacular. While it is acceptable to expect a certain amount of fluency with Go terminology, there is no way you can even expect your opponent to understand English. Etiquette is about taking the time to check your social surroundings, considering other people's feelings and communicating in a manner appropriate to the task at hand. To adhere to strict rules of conduct would be as daft as slavishly following proverbs. The naturally sincere move is often the right one. Oh, btw; this is the best WIKI I've yet grokked. Heh ;-]
W: I have to point out here that many people learn more by playing than going over the game, and wish to focus more on their own progress than teaching others. While helping others is laudable, you have no obligation to do so, and to not discuss a game even when the other player wants to isn't rude, unless of course you've actually made such an obligation.
Randall: I understand the usefulness of acronyms and abbreviations if one cannot type or is in a hurry. However, I think that Sensei's Library would be better off without them. I just encountered an "IMHO" and an "OTOH" in one of the beginner's info sections. I immediately found the meanings, but I was inconvenienced. How much more inconvenient must it be for people who speak English poorly? Use your abbreviations and acronyms as you see fit, but it would be nice if you complied with the Wiki Etiquette. (I understand that the acronyms are necessary on this page -- especially for humor.)
Sebastian: I agree. My pet peeve acronym on SL (I mean, Sensei's library ;-) is "oc".
Naustin: IMHO there should be an acronym page here at SL. I have learned alot of them just by repetition but there always seems to be a new one I don't know. Gives me flashbacks of losing to my mom at Scrabble. Ditto for the smileys.
W: I prefer to write, and read, "gg" and "thx" instead of "good game" and "thank you". So if you get on your high horse about how I should type it out because it's better for you, I'll reverse and say the same right back. Be polite and don't waste my time. If you insist that it's not correct English, and that if I don't know how to articulate myself correctly I should invest the effort and learn it, I will say that what you write is not correct net speak, and that you should invest the effort to learn the acronyms (or even bookmark http://www.acronymfinder.com/).
Naustin: Thanks for the link. Consider it bookmarked. I guess you weren't talking to me with the other comment but I wouldn't accuse someone of not knowing how to articulate themselves but I do think sometimes (as with japanese terms here at SL) some places get alittle thick with them. I think go is a game many people play and especially on servers it is important to cut people slack both ways. I have started using some acronyms because I am not a great typist and sometimes find myself getting behind in a conversation, talking to an empty room, or using too much of my clock time to type but I do like to make the effort of saying hello beforehand and making the opening to chat or review afterwards.
W: I can only agree. Any mock intolerance I show is merely to demonstrate a point.
Ellbur: I agree with Randall; Do not use language-specific acronyms on Sensei's Library. People who do not speak English as their first language may not understand them. I think the worst one I've seen would be IMO. This is used on practacally every discussion page on the site, leaving those who do not know its meaning confused. I am also really irritated by smilies. They would not confuse the content of a page like acronyms, but, when used in excess, will torture those who must read them. In summary, Do not use words or symbols that would not be found in a standard English dictionary.
geno: Ell, roger wilco, np, ok? :-)
st....: I think the most idiotic thing to say in Go is "good luck".
Go has nothing to do with luck!
Only way to "get lucky" in Go is when your opponent makes too many mistakes. Luck? No.
but Grumpy Old Mr. S is obviously overreacting. Tnanx [sic]
axd: I'd like to point out that "good luck" is accepted etiquette on DGS (see http://www.dragongoserver.net/faq.php?read=t&cat=15#Entry25)
Hu: I always feel lucky when I am able to play with a clear mind and play relatively free from egregious blunders. I feel luckiest when struck by inspiration. Yes, Go is a game of "perfect information", but my play is affected by my mental discipline or lack of it.
HandOfPaper:"Good luck" is an irrelevant term for someone who has perfect mastery of the monstrous tree of game trajectories in Go. Since no one has this (well, some 9p folks estimate we know about 20% of what there is to know about Go--- so maybe people will have it in a few millennia), luck applies in the following ways:
1. ensuring that you see what makes a stupid move stupid, if it's not something patently obvious to you on account of reading ability
2. allowing you to see moves which are good and what makes them good
3. allowing you to not experience brain farts, or, (when you do) allowing you to recognize them for what they are before they have a chance to wreck your moves and your game
The next item I might add is a little dubious as far as its legitimacy goes. Sometimes you make a mistake which could wreck your entire game if your opponent made the right move (and the analysis behind this was easy) but your opponent did not notice and then you prevent the opponent's move by doing it yourself and getting you out of trouble. This happened to me in my osibori game on KGS. Since I had been punished for royally stupid mistakes like that in the past, I was glad to experience this reprieve, especially since I had done very well in the game before that. I don't know when you would consider this legitimate luck and under what circumstances you would want to express a wish for this for yourself or your opponent, but I think it deserves some mention because it can be helpful, in small appropriately administered doses.
With regard to this acronyms topic overall, I will say the following:
I am a bit slow to catch on to the use of acronyms. One of the few I use regularly is "SL" for this site. I am used to "gg" and "thx" and therefore I don't have trouble with those. I do not feel the urge to use acronyms to express my sentiments about the game myself. Other acronyms can give me trouble, but this generally does not bother me because I encounter them seldom.
Tirian It seems to me that if you're grateful for the forty minutes that someone has spent playing Go with you, one way to express that is with the few extra keypreses required to type proper words. I think that it differs from IRC (and, to a lesser degree, Usenet), which are trying to mimic spoken conversation and so you're pressed to express thoughts as quickly as you speak. The beginning and ending of a Go game is a time for ritual politeness, and I think one is well served by being formally polite. On the other hand, I will frequently communicate with idiotic emoticons like ^_^ and o.O during the game.
Ironically, the phrase that grates against my last good nerve is "Let us begin and enjoy the game", which I suspect is some Japanese IGS client's automated way of saying "I'm running kanji on a Unicode machine and so we're not going to communicate at all," in a remarkably pretty way. The other thing I don't get is "gg" at the beginning of a match. I tend to say "Good luck" in reply to that, which for beginners is intended to mean "May neither of us make a -50 in gote move too early, which will take the fun out of the game for both of us."
George Caplan This is one of those things that we cannot take seriously. Dont get me wrong, I am with the preserve the noble tradition of the game crowd, but on line it simply is not reasonable. For example the use of the macros - may sound insincere, but if the person is non english speaking - or a stroke victim friend of mine - that one key stroke macro may be the best he can do.
I try to reserve my outrage for those who make it clear to me they understand English. Like the ones who do not say thank you at all, but ask for another game, and then insult you in perfectly good English when you refuse.
As to those who look for teaching and a few comments, that is always nice. However, if a stronger player is nice enough to give you a game - you have a much better chance of getting some comments and advice from me if you resign when you are clearly behind and not waste a half hour of my time in a senseless and hopeless endgame. It is rude for me to ask you to resign, but dont expect me to spend more of my time with you if you do not respect my ability to finish a won game.
On the attitude that "Good luck" is unsuitable, I completly disagree. With internet go, the truest form of luck you need at the start of a game is that you have chosen a decent opponent. And that is complete luck online.
Zarlan: If your opponent doesn't resign when you have clearly lost, it might be because it isn't so clear to your opponent. I might have pissed of a whole lot of my opponents simply because I am lousy at counting and therefore can't realy be sure if I have lost ...or if I'm behind.
There is also the possibility that you have overlooked something and there not the clear winner (not that the risk of that is high if the opponent is a lot weaker) or maybe your opponent believes that to be the case.
Also "Good luck" is suitable. Not because you need luck with the opponent. Most servers have reasonably good rating systems (on yahoo though... pure luck).
Go isn't a game based on pure luck or mostly luck.
Indeed it is very much a game of skill.
Nonetheless there is still an element of luck.
There is always an element of luck.
George Caplan Let me be clear about resigning against stronger players. What I am talking about is losing a 40 stone group and playing out the one pt. endgame. I am far more tolerant of trying to live in my big territory, or trying to make the 40 stone group live - efforts that may be insulting but would at least win if they worked. I am dan level, so the folks I am talking about are usually low kyu, not high kyu - they know they are behind.
Jade: If I'm playing a strong player and am trying to learn, I may very well be able to tell myself that I've lost before the first move. However, even when it is patently obvious that I have lost, I still like to play the game out. Not because I don't respect the other player's ability to play out an endgame but because I want to see how they play out the endgame and learn from it.
Dieter: But Jade, you will not learn from it. It does not matter anymore for your opponent to play good endgame or bad, because he'll win anyway. He will not bother to decide whether he has enough ko-threats to play the ko, because he doesn't need the ko. And when the game is over, chances are your opponent doesn't want to analyze with you because you have annoyed him enough already. So you will rather lose the opportunity to learn as well.
George Caplan We are kind of off topic here, but Dieter is correct. Jade, never take the attitude that you cannot win, but when you know it is over, it is over. There is no reason to play good endgame when I know it is over. I am either going to play safe, or play ugly, trying to punish. If you are interested in how stronger players play the endgame, watch two of them playing. If you want help from a stronger player, ask them. I have even had weaker players ask if they should resign. Obviously, they are behind when they ask, and I respond either yes, or give them a tip on something they should try before resigning. This type of player is a pleasure to play with.
Nick Hoover - Back to communication with abbreviations, I once saw a kibitz that said "rofl" ("rolling on the floor laughing"), but misinterpreted as "Read out the ... fine ladder." It took me a while to remember the first meaning, but I like the second one better. Any one else have some go-specific abbreviations they like to use?
Paodjuret - I can understand that in timed games people can use abbrevations to spare time. I do that a lot. But after the game, when the time has stopped anyway, I type out whole words. I don't play Go when I'm stressed, that's a bad idea from the beginning. (And now I don't mean when you're stressed because it's a timed game.) :) But still, I would prefer a GG or a GJ (Good game/Good job) or thx any day over that my opponent just left without saying a word. :/
caffeine - I've found this wiki very helpful, but these tiresome etiquette and "habit" articles seem like a little much. These articles have very little to do with actual go gameplay and more to do with subjective aesthetics. Teach me how to win. I'll learn how to avoid offending my opponent on my own time.
Zarlan: The "habit" pages are categorized in those that have to do with getting better and those that are for courtesy and such, so you can simply skip the latter. The etiquette/courtesy pages are there for people who wish to read it. If you don't want to read it, there is no reason to complain about them. Just don't read them. It's not like you have to read every page.
atomicholt: what about the other end of the spectrum, composing an epic poem on the spot as your greeting?
QWerner This remind me to a real chat-talk. A translation may help;)
<Oasis> brb (be right back)
<passi> ok (all correct)
<Oasis> re (returned; kind of regards)
<passi> wb (wellcome back)
<Oasis> thx (thanks)
<passi> np (no problem)
<Oasis> cs? (Counter Strike; videogame can be played by per to per)
<passi> ip? (Internet-Protocol-(Adresse))
PS: Accently "all correct" should be AC, but in the summer 1838 arised in Boston a funny habit to use acronym for wittingly wrong written expressions eg. KG for "know go" ("no go") or KY for "know yuse" ("no use") and ofcourse OK for "oll korrect".
RBerenguel: Translate please, I don't get it :)
---
Quick bit of info: depending on what games you usually play, certain abbreviations can be pretty much bog-standard, and are especially helpful when the player community doesn't share a single language. The best example I can think of is Starcraft - which shares with Go a fairly large Korean player base, and in which 'glhf' good luck, have fun? and 'gg' are going to communicate things the full version wouldn't.
So: sometimes the idiotic abbreviations are a force of habit, and a lot of the time they're useful interlinguas. If they bother you that much, remember that most people seem to default to conversational mimickry online - if you write in capitalized fullstopped complete sentences, the other party is probably going to try and do so too.
---
With my games, I usually let the style of the game decide on the question of abbrvns. or not: I play lots of blitz 9x9 fun games, where I usually prefer "hi gg" and "thx","cu", but when I play a slow, interesting 19x19 game, it is a question of politeness to say at least "thank you", maybe also talk about a review and so on. B.S.
-- IMHO the author is right, using too many abbrev. sucks. We should change this ASAP! GL with your quest!
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