Territory versus Influence Styles / Discussion

Discussion page for Territory Versus Influence Styles page

Discuss the Territory versus Influence style page

January 13, 2004

Cheyenne Created the Territory Versus Influence Styles page to set some examples that help classify the difference in styles. I have seen discussion which states that once a game has established a particular style, that one should try to not switch to the other.

The other idea behind the page is to assist people trying to study professional or historical games to know which players they might find atypical of each style.

Cheyenne: The reference page has been started, it needs input. Part of the reason why I've started the page is that I would like more information myself in this topic. Also if the format doesn't seem quite right, feel free to change or offer suggestions.

Cheyenne: The following two SL pages might offer some starting points Professional Players' Go Styles and Overview of fuseki patterns


JohnAspinall: I'd really like to understand this stuff, and you've chosen a great example for greater scrutiny. I'm talking about Low Chinese vs High Chinese. Here are some questions that come to mind:

  • Are territory and influence styles discrete choices, or is there a spectrum of styles where we label one end of the spectrum territory-oriented and the other end influence-oriented?
  • Even if there is a spectrum between territory and influence styles, are intermediate styles worse than either pure version? Put another way, are territory and influence styles local maxima in whatever skill measurement?
  • Considering the Chinese in particular, how is it that the placement of B5 one line lower or higher flips the switch between styles? Is this a tipping point between two very different games?
  • If the Chinese comes in low and high versions, why not SanRenSei?
[Diagram]

"Low" almost-SanRenSei?

What's wrong with this opening?

kokiri: the reason you don't really see this is probably to do with the reducing move at b. Given that the star point stones have weaknesses behind them at a white could invade at these points, giving black influence outside, and then B5 looks too low to make use of it.

[Diagram]

"Low" almost-SanRenSei?

k. continued one can imagine this sort of thing, whereupon the circled black stone feels out of place.

Cheyenne: Right.. and I believe that this illustrates the point made that one should not try to mix territory style plays with influence style plays. The SanRenSei is an influence fuseki, while the play low play at B5 (above) tries to take territory (my understanding is that in general 3rd line plays are more targeted towards establishing territory, while 4th line plays are more targeted towards establish influence).

Bill: It is important to note with this kind of argument, ...

that this is not so good for Black, either. In effect, Black has violated the dictum not to make territory from thickness.

When subsequent play is questionable, it is hard to blame earlier play.


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