3-4 point high approach one-space low pincer attachment noseki

    Keywords: Joseki
[Diagram]

Noseki

Dieter: When my opponent played B2, I knew it couldn't be right, but I think I did wrong myself.

xela: I'm sure that this diagram is in fact joseki. Unfortunately I can't tell you any more except that there are many many variations!

Bill: I just did a search on gobase of the pattern through B2 and got only 13 games. That's a big clue that it's not joseki, but a situational play.

Bill: When is it playable? In all the games Black had something in the lower left corner or side. It might be a wall, an enclosure, a 4-4 stone, or an approach from the left side. In one case it was a pincer.

[Diagram]

Noseki

The result is not so bad. But I think White can do worse to Black.

[Diagram]

Noseki

White has sente and two forcing moves. Perhaps using the sente to play c now is honte.

While I'm writing this I'm starting to like better what I did.

[Diagram]

Better ?

But what happens now ?

[Diagram]

Tricked

AndyPierce: I seem to recall seeing this... I'll check tonight. Suspect that this is fine for white and that it's important to play W5 before W7 and not to play W7 at a instead.

[Diagram]

Tricked

Bill: Right, Andy. This is the standard refutation of black+circle.

[Diagram]

Joseki



Bob McGuigan:

Ishida's joseki dictionary, volume 2, gives the following a one diamond (= acceptable joseki) rating:

[Diagram]

Joseki according to Ishida


[Diagram]

Question

unkx80: How does one answer B8?

[Diagram]

Joseki

fractic: White can force with 1 and then secure the corner and an outside connection in sente with 3. I've also seen a pro game with W3 at a leading to a large scale fight.


[Diagram]

Alternate response

Bill: The most common reply is W3, which is covered above. However, W1 also occurs, with the above continuation.


[Diagram]

Re-evaluation

Dieter: OK I'll take a fresh look at it, asking my fundamental questions, replacing all joseki knowledge.

  1. Who has the corner territory? Black, 10+
  2. Who has influence to the left? White.
  3. Who has influence to the top? Black, but not as strong.
  4. Who has influence to the centre? White.
  5. Are there any weaknesses? White is very strong. Black is alive.
  6. Who has the initiative? Black. Both have invested 7 stones.

So, it is White's superior influence (scope for development) against Black's secure 10 point territory and sente. I think it is close to being an equal result but I prefer White and I imagine most pros do.

Bill: I think that both W1 and B4 are mistakes. B4 is better at W5, and W1 is better at W3 (or as a hane at the head of two stones).



[Diagram]

For comparison

  1. Who has the corner territory? White,5+
  2. Who has influence to the left? Black.
  3. Who has influence to the top? White, but not as strong.
  4. Who has influence to the centre? Black.
  5. Are there any weaknesses? Both are close to alive. White has two forcing moves and has no real weakness at the circled point due to Black's bad shape.
  6. Who has the initiative? White. Both have invested 7 stones.

So, compared to the previous position, reversing colors, White is worse off in points but better off in top influence, while Black's influence is a little mitigated by the forcing moves but his group is already alive with more points.

I'd say this is also a little better for Black, just like the previous diagram is for White.

[Diagram]

Resistance

This resistance however, against the first option, looks tough on White.

Bill: Is W8 necessary?

Dieter: Oh! And I claimed to be good at L&D?

[Diagram]



[Diagram]

Resistance

This doesn't look very satisfying either.

[Diagram]

Another joseki

fractic: How about throwing this joseki into the comparison aswell. The result is quite similar.

[Diagram]

Another joseki

fractic: Black has the endgame sente move at a so black has about five more points then white in the corner. Further he has very strong influence on the left side. It looks as though white also has good influence on the top. But there is a weakpoint at b where black can play and easily show that white in fact doesn't have so much influence. Since white also has sente here I think it's about equal compared to the result from the other joseki.




This is a copy of the living page "3-4 point high approach one-space low pincer attachment noseki" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2011 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.
[Welcome to Sensei's Library!]
StartingPoints
ReferenceSection
About